Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters

[BuzzPeakWankBobbly]

[LONG POST]

Rachel McKinnon has been publicly tweeting about their workout recently and then I fell down a rabbit hole of (also publicly available) statistics:

twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1122578451192602626

One of their lifts was stated as follows: "Doing low ROM deadlifts. 485lb singles" (220kg)

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WORKING ASSUMPTIONS FOR POST

1. R McKinnon competes in the 35-44 age category for cycling, which is generally accepted as the starting “Masters” age range in sports.
2. According to the velonews article (link at end) R McKinnon weighs around 200lbs (~88kg)
3. R McKinnon may have only been doing “one rep max” which can be higher than part of a general lifting workout (although the tweet does say deadlifts (plural)).
4. R McKinnon's tweet appears to mean a Romanian Deadlift, versus a Conventional Deadlift - which I think is what the British Powerlifting results are for (link at end). I don't believe the difference in lift is significant here though.

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So I looked at the British Powerlifting records for the entrants that match that as closely as possible:

• For women this would be the 84+kg Masters group
  (note: this is the maximum weight grouping and includes all women that weight and over.)

• For men, the 83kg Masters group
  (there are 2 further weight classes for men - 93kg and 105kg)

I have used the “2018 British Masters Classic Championships” results; then calculated the mean, median and mode for each class (links at end).

There were 13 entrants in the women’s 84+kg class and 15 entrants in the men’s 83kg class.

Women’s Best Deadlifts (84+kg): Mean: 161.5kg / Median: 150kg / Mode: 170kg, 150kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 192.5 187.5 170 170 150 145 150 137.5 130 120 207.5 200 140)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (83kg): Mean: 214.8kg / Median: 210kg / Mode: 210kg, 200kg, 202.5kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 272.5 265 232.5 255 210 215 200 202.5 252.5 210 200 180 202.5 175 150)

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I then looked at the higher class men’s results as well:
Men’s Best Deadlifts (93kg): Mean: 212.5 / Median: 235 / Mode: 250
(Individual “best deadlift”: 250 235 220 235 240 250 222.5 237.5 210 180 250 237.5 250 185 245 16 150)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (105kg): Mean: 248 / Median: 237.5 Mode: 200
(Individual “best deadlift”: 323 302.5 260 230 200 237.5 255 225 200)

These results show that that R McKinnon’s tweeted lift falls in between the averages of the 93kg and 105kg classes, and completely outranks every British Powerlifting female's best efforts in 2018. Every. Single. One.

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Six months ago in the velonews article, Rachel McKinnon stated "My body produces next to no testosterone, and my levels are below the bottom of the average female range, to the point where they’re essentially undetectable" - which reads as if they believe they are virtually indistinguishable from females in terms of biological advantage.

So, er, right… No inherent male bodily or muscular advantage, yet able to lift more than all the female power lifters on their best lift in the 2018 British Powerlifting Masters Classic Championships? ALL OF THEM? And, somewhat amazingly, significantly more than most of the men’s bests as well?

This is why women's sport will be destroyed.

LINKS:
www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/commentary-the-complicated-case-of-transgender-cyclist-dr-rachel-mckinnon_480285

www.myprotein.com/thezone/training/deadlift-variations/

www.britishpowerlifting.org/documents/665_british_masters_classic_championships.pdf

www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/statistics/mean-median-mode.php

I feel like I'm the college girl in a horror movie just waiting for the baddie to show up when I least expect it.

Buzz Do Not Go in to the Cellar, the Basement, or OutSide

Ooo ooooo spooky.

I've just realised - I'd love a scary story night on MN FWR. There are so many real ogres, it'd be great if we could jeer at (while sharing cake and gin and tea and scorn, would be epic) a few wanna be's

Well if youre not a virgin buzz then you are stuffed

Possibly literally

I watch too many horror movies

I identify as a virgin.

Good enough, right?
(In fact, probably better than an actual virgin because they are oppressing me with their privilege)

Well i suppose...

That whole identifying thing seems to work for some people

Not 100% sure it would have worked in Friday the 13th....but give it a go

The power of positive thinking and all that

Argument 1: Men are 100% identical to women in all regards and testosterone has nothing to do with anything (and bodily composition is even less relevant)

Argument 2: science finds evidential and factual differences between men and women's bodies, with female menstrual cycles being just one clearly differentiating factor.

Hmm, who to believe? What a puzzler...

But I'm sure someone will be along to put us all right with their unqualified opinion shortly. At least, on twitter maybe.

www.t-nation.com/training/hormone-cycle-and-female-lifters?

hey Girldownunder Another take on the Mary Gregory story...

(Worth it just for his glorious smile! Totally infectious! Also the likes vs dislikes are rather telling)

He has many related videos on his channel. Unfortunately he does seem to think women haven't done enough - more through his own blissful ignorance than actual intended malice - but he certainly does get the "MA'AM Community"!

Someone needs to tell laddo above that women ARE protesting ...

But I'm sure someone will be along to put us all right with their unqualified opinion shortly. At least, on twitter maybe.

That was a very interesting read - who knew female hormones played such a massive part in fitness and training. And may explain why I'm so accident prone at certain times of the month!

I've checked twitter to see why we're wrong (because of course we are ) and someone is too busy trying to fuck up Kelly Holmes' sponsorship / deal with iamspecialized cos blah blah transphobic crusade and #StopTheHate #BoycottSpecialized to have time for us.

The Amazing Lucas, if only he did a bit more research and reading around, he could actually help us but he's still to realise that it's not us (GC, most women, some men, the general public when they find out) that want this at all. So his 'gotcha' is a bit wide of the mark.

I’m going to resurrect this thread to add a bit of related info (you know how us ladies like to keep things tidy!

Mary Gregory was mentioned towards the end of this thread, and now we have their actual stats (these are taken from their own instagram so they may well be as "real" as poor old RM's...)

My bolding/emphasis, with the equivalent women's records in italics underneath for convenience, using the same British Powerlifting stats as before. Again, all my own interpretation and welcome any corrections from those in the know.

75marylifts As promised here is the full meet recap- what a day yesterday! One my best meets ever, not because of the records but because I was prepared, had a plan and flawlessly executed it! The records were just icing on the cake!

Friday night weighed in super light at 179.3lbs, 81.3kg! Over a kg under the class limit.
Women’s weight category 84kg. 13 entrants in that category

Squats, opener 130kg good lift. Opened a bit lighter than planned, was having issues with depth. Wanted to make sure I buried this one. 2nd attempt 138kg good lift. Chipped the VA State masters record here. Based on feels I knew I didn't have much left for thirds. 3rd attempt 142.5kg / 314.2lbs good lift. Chipped the world masters record here. It felt much harder than it looked, I really don't think much more was there.

Women’s Best Squats (84kg): Mean: 121 / Median: 120 / Mode: 120.
(Individual “best squat”: 153.5 157.5 137.5 120 130 125 102.5 120 117.5 92.5 122.5 100 97.5

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Bench, opener 100kg good lift. This was a world masters record. Couldn't get set up right and the pins we're a bit low. This was alot harder than I expected. 2nd attempt 102.5kg good lift. Broke my own record, took a hand off. This one felt the best out all three bench attempts. 3rd 105.5kg / 232.6lbs good lift. Chipped the world open bench record. Got a fast press command luckily, this one again felt harder than it looked. Was struggling with tightness here, really don't think I had much left here as well.

Women’s Best Bench Press (84kg): Mean: 68 / Median: 67.5 / Mode: 57.5.
(Individual “best bench press”: 75 75 72.5 91 90 62.5 70 67.5 57.5 57.5 62.5 57.5 50

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DL opener 177.5kg good lift and world masters total record. This felt harder than I expected so I took a smaller jump for my 2nd. 2nd attempt 185kg good lift, world masters dl record. This felt really good. Starting to get in the groove. 3rd attempt 192.5kg / 424.4lbs good lift and a 2.5kg PR! This didn't feel much different than 185kg but I didn't want to get greedy- the plan was 9 for 9 and I had a conservative PR. Felt great to end the strong!

Women’s Best Deadlifts (84kg): Mean: 141 / Median: 140 / Mode: 120.
(Individual “best deadlift”:191.5 167.5 147.5 145 135 140 142.5 125 117.5 120 150 130 120

Just Again, awesome day! Totaled 440.5kg/ 971.1lbs with a 399.5wilks. Thanks again to the all people who supported me, helped me, and cheered me on! 27 white lights, excited to get back too training and prepping for the next meet!

savvysavit
#transisbeautiful#sharetheplatform#powerliftingwomen#upliftandliftheavy#richmondbalance#morefemalestrength#exodusstrength#lgbtqsports#sumoischeating#deadlifts#benching#squats#bemoreawesome

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Just to put that in a summary
MG Best Squat: 142.5kg
BP Best Squat: 157kg (but the MMM for the cohort shows this to be a clear outlier: Mean: 121 / Median: 120 / Mode: 120)

MG best bench: 105.5kg
BP best bench: 90kg (Mean: 68 / Median: 67.5 / Mode: 57.5)

MG best DL: 192.5kg
BP best DL: 191.5kg (Mean: 141 / Median: 140 / Mode: 120)

So once again, we see that quite randomly and inexplicably an individual with a certain bodily shape, and composition has magically been able to lift much heavier weights than the best efforts of the pros at a championship. 

Following that event USA Powerlifting released a statement saying (essentially) MG lied by omission and their wins would not be accepted (see my post Fri 03-May-19 13:37:19 for info and links)

Today (10 May), Save Women’s Sports published this article about a suggested amendment to USA Powerlifting’s trans policy. For once, somebody has stood up and said (my paraphrasing) “don’t be ridiculous, of course male advantage exists”

From the link:
“USA Powerlifting (USAPL) voted by an overwhelming majority (46-4) to keep their transgender participation policy as is. Men who identify as women will not be allowed to compete as women in USAPL competitions, for now.”

“Kristopher Hunt, MD, presented scientific data on behalf of the USAPL that concluded that transwomen, men who identify as female, have physiological advantages over women and that, “sex matters from womb to tomb.”

WOMB TO TOMB.

savewomenssports.com/updates/f/usa-powerlifting-doubles-down-on-its-transgender-policy

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I also recommend you read the USAPL's own website, as they are unequivocal in their clear and fair stance, and it is once many other sporting bodies could easily mirror. Strangely not seeing any blowback for this decision on their fb, insta or anwyere really. How peculiar.
www.usapowerlifting.com/transgender-participation-policy/

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Finally, this standout Q&A from the USAPL website:

Q – Why don’t you just have another division for transgender athletes to compete in?
A – This option, interestingly has been implemented by the LGBT Powerlifting Union, who once a year hold a “non-sanctioned” Powerlifting competition. (LGBT International Powerlifting Championships).
While this event does not follow the drug testing policy for USA Powerlifting, it appears to be a viable option for them and the MX category is set to be included in the 2020 Gay Games in Hong Kong.
The MX Category that is currently offered by LGBT IPC is optional for Trans, Non Binary and Intersex athletes, with athletes also able to choose Male or Female category from day one they make any decision to transition.

The MX Category that is currently offered by LGBT IPC is optional for Trans, Non Binary and Intersex athletes, with athletes also able to choose Male or Female category from day one they make any decision to transition.

(although no idea why they are conflating Trans and Intersex)

Good for USA Powerlifting.

Who on earth is going to want to watch or be interested in women's weightlifting if it's dominated by male born individuals. Who are not good enough to compete with the other male born individuals.

*powerlifting

Also, although I may have misunderstood it, someone intimated on another thread that if a man's testosterone was artificially lowered to that of an actual woman, he wouldn't survive. I don't know if anyone can confirm that.

For the sake of tidiness (Buzz ) link to thread about Mary Gregory below - might be good to copy your stats over?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3573081-MtF-sets-4-new-world-records-in-womens-power-lifting

Seeing as I had the spreadsheet open, I thought I may as well compare MG to the highest women's class (84+kg results in italics):

MG best Squat: 142.5kg
BP best Squat: 157kg (but the MMM for the cohort shows this to be a clear outlier: Mean: 121 / Median: 120 / Mode: 120)

BP best Squat: 84+kg: 185kg (Mean: 134 / Median: 140 / Mode: 105, 155)

MG best bench: 105.5kg
BP best bench: 90kg (Mean: 141 / Median: 140 / Mode: 120)

BP best bench 84+kg: 95kg (Mean: 73 / Median: 72.5 / Mode: 72.5)

MG best DL: 192.5kg
BP best DL: 191.5kg (Mean: 141 / Median: 140 / Mode: 120)

BP best DL 84+kg: 207.5kg (Mean: 164 / Median: 170 / Mode: 170)

Astonishing. Not.

Thanks Girl!

I'll create a tidied up summation of my posts here for that thread.

someone intimated on another thread that if a man's testosterone was artificially lowered to that of an actual woman, he wouldn't survive. I don't know if anyone can confirm that.

I can’t be certain, I’m not an endocrinologist but have seen many due to a lot of hormone issues. I ran a support group and became friends with the one guy who was a member. He had testosterone almost as low as a typical females. Short term. They will get all kinds of awful symptoms. I’m not sure they’d die though.

They will get all kinds of awful symptoms. I’m not sure they’d die though.

So this isn't true?

Six months ago in the velonews article, Rachel McKinnon stated "My body produces next to no testosterone, and my levels are below the bottom of the average female range, to the point where they’re essentially undetectable"

So this isn't true?

I couldn’t say for sure, but it is highly unlikely any male could compete at any level with such low testosterone. I also had low testosterone, for a woman, and was bedridden- I had low sex hormones across the board. It has more impact than people realise. The male friend i mentioned has had a terrible time, truly awful. If one hormone is out of whack, it will affect all your hormones eventually and then you’re really ill. My low testosterone happened after a prolonged period of undiagnosed thyroid disorder. One hormone went and eventually all my hormones became low- my endo called it an ‘endocrine collapse’. I would want an endo’s opinion but I cannot believe any male could train let alone compete, in that condition.

One of the most common side effects of low testosterone in anyone is depression.

Okay, thanks Jessica. It sounds like McKinnon is practising their thesis on everyone.

Yes, and that’s why RM lurks here but never posts. We have questions RM can’t ever answer and unlike Twitter, the questioners can’t be blocked.
Some may call that spineless of RM, personally I’d love the opportunity to talk to RM.