Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters

[BuzzPeakWankBobbly]

[LONG POST]

Rachel McKinnon has been publicly tweeting about their workout recently and then I fell down a rabbit hole of (also publicly available) statistics:

twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1122578451192602626

One of their lifts was stated as follows: "Doing low ROM deadlifts. 485lb singles" (220kg)

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WORKING ASSUMPTIONS FOR POST

1. R McKinnon competes in the 35-44 age category for cycling, which is generally accepted as the starting “Masters” age range in sports.
2. According to the velonews article (link at end) R McKinnon weighs around 200lbs (~88kg)
3. R McKinnon may have only been doing “one rep max” which can be higher than part of a general lifting workout (although the tweet does say deadlifts (plural)).
4. R McKinnon's tweet appears to mean a Romanian Deadlift, versus a Conventional Deadlift - which I think is what the British Powerlifting results are for (link at end). I don't believe the difference in lift is significant here though.

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So I looked at the British Powerlifting records for the entrants that match that as closely as possible:

• For women this would be the 84+kg Masters group
  (note: this is the maximum weight grouping and includes all women that weight and over.)

• For men, the 83kg Masters group
  (there are 2 further weight classes for men - 93kg and 105kg)

I have used the “2018 British Masters Classic Championships” results; then calculated the mean, median and mode for each class (links at end).

There were 13 entrants in the women’s 84+kg class and 15 entrants in the men’s 83kg class.

Women’s Best Deadlifts (84+kg): Mean: 161.5kg / Median: 150kg / Mode: 170kg, 150kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 192.5 187.5 170 170 150 145 150 137.5 130 120 207.5 200 140)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (83kg): Mean: 214.8kg / Median: 210kg / Mode: 210kg, 200kg, 202.5kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 272.5 265 232.5 255 210 215 200 202.5 252.5 210 200 180 202.5 175 150)

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I then looked at the higher class men’s results as well:
Men’s Best Deadlifts (93kg): Mean: 212.5 / Median: 235 / Mode: 250
(Individual “best deadlift”: 250 235 220 235 240 250 222.5 237.5 210 180 250 237.5 250 185 245 16 150)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (105kg): Mean: 248 / Median: 237.5 Mode: 200
(Individual “best deadlift”: 323 302.5 260 230 200 237.5 255 225 200)

These results show that that R McKinnon’s tweeted lift falls in between the averages of the 93kg and 105kg classes, and completely outranks every British Powerlifting female's best efforts in 2018. Every. Single. One.

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Six months ago in the velonews article, Rachel McKinnon stated "My body produces next to no testosterone, and my levels are below the bottom of the average female range, to the point where they’re essentially undetectable" - which reads as if they believe they are virtually indistinguishable from females in terms of biological advantage.

So, er, right… No inherent male bodily or muscular advantage, yet able to lift more than all the female power lifters on their best lift in the 2018 British Powerlifting Masters Classic Championships? ALL OF THEM? And, somewhat amazingly, significantly more than most of the men’s bests as well?

This is why women's sport will be destroyed.

LINKS:
www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/commentary-the-complicated-case-of-transgender-cyclist-dr-rachel-mckinnon_480285

www.myprotein.com/thezone/training/deadlift-variations/

www.britishpowerlifting.org/documents/665_british_masters_classic_championships.pdf

www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/statistics/mean-median-mode.php

If a large Male reduces their testosterone to zero it does not affect:

Their build. Their more robust skeleton, with larger stronger muscle attachments, their heart and lung capacity or any of the permanent changes that testosterone has wrought on their body previously.

All the wittering on about ‘wimmin are this height and weight too’ is irrelevant. The male body is more powerful than the female.

Even males who have never been exposed to a single functional molecule of testosterone (males with complete androgen insensitivity, CAIS) still hit a height closer to their expected as Male, rather than female, suggesting other factors are at play.

It’s being male that gives someone an advantage. Testosterone is a secondary marker, not the primary cause.

A low ROM DL is not an RDL but even so, those are big numbers. The plural probably means a series of 1RM with rest between.

I’m that age/weight and a female track rider of the same discipline and my 1 rep max full ROM DL (as why the heck would you do a reduced ROM one?) is 150kg. I reckon I’d never get over 200kg even in a million years of optimal training.

I am waiting for the inevitable F up that will be a trans woman competing in boxing or other violence based thing. Maybe after a man saying he is a woman completely battering a woman in the ring it may cause outrage of a level where this idiocy will stop. Although there will be enough loud voices still claiming it is a woman (yeah right) and nothing wrong here.

Yep, low ROM means low range of motion/movement ie not lifting it the whole way. So not exactly comparable. One can generally lift more because you don’t have to lift it as far (dabbled with CrossFit for a while).

Thank you for the extra info/expertise Helspopje and Bowl

I am waiting for the inevitable F up that will be a trans woman competing in boxing or other violence based thing. Maybe after a man saying he is a woman completely battering a woman in the ring it may cause outrage of a level where this idiocy will stop.

Already happened.

www.bjjee.com/articles/transgender-mma-fighter-who-broke-female-opponents-skull-are-we-getting-too-politically-correct-with-reality/

FWIW, I think the "low ROM" here means "low range of motion", hence the unusual setup. I'd assume most people could lift heavier for a partial deadlift than a full deadlift.

Which would mean either the figure on the tweet is (charitably) in error; or RM can conventionally deadlift more than just about any pro lifter in their age category, despite not being a pro lifter?

Wait, you’re not suggesting that RK would make an outrageous claim to be something they’re not, are you?

I am waiting for the inevitable F up that will be a trans woman competing in boxing or other violence based thing. Maybe after a man saying he is a woman completely battering a woman in the ring it may cause outrage of a level where this idiocy will stop.

Google fallon Fox.

as why the heck would you do a reduced ROM one?

Either injury/rehab, or training partial rom at heavier than full rom max as an accessory to proper ones? Or just to get some big numbers to post on the interwebs?

3. R McKinnon may have only been doing “one rep max” which can be higher than part of a general lifting workout (although the tweet does say deadlifts (plural)).

McKinnon's tweet says 485lb singles. So only one lift at a time.

Interesting analysis, buzz, thanks for that.

Sportsmen and women can get lifetime bans for historic doping because, contrary to what McK believes, the science demonstrates that while the testosterone circulating in the blood diminishes fairly quickly, the overall physiological benefits are much more long lived. It’s obvious that this is also true if you did your doping by means of the prolonged festival of testosterone production that is a male puberty. Doping athletes don’t show up for competition pumped to the gills with steroids - they cycle off them in season.

Wowza That thigh pic!

That is disgusting, where will this insanity stop?

Has anyone considered what would happen if a trans woman entered the field a female boxing? In the extreme this could mean chris Eubanks jr self declares as a woman and is able to knock their opponent out with the first punch. This would not just be unfair, it could be deadly.

Yes mrs we have all considered that. It’s a real concern.

I’m not so confident...The CAS decision in semenya’s case still allows testosterone up to 5nmol/l. That’s way outside the normal female range. If I went to my docs and they found that level of testosterone they’d be looking for serious issues. It’s too high.

This quote is also worrying because it’s using testosterone, not sex, as a differentiator.

“Historically the reason why we have separate male and female categories is that otherwise females would never win any medals,” he said. “Testosterone is the most important factor in explaining the difference. We are talking about females competing with levels similar to males. Very often it is more than 20 or 25nmol/L. So it is very high.”

MEN and women don’t compete - the IAAF need to be really clear on that. It’s not one homogenous bunch of people who can magically flip between Male/female categories depending on their testosterone levels. Men and women have physiological differences and testosterone is a secondary effect of that - NOT the primary driver. A man who has gone through Male puberty has permanent advantages, and reducing his testosterone does not magically make him aligned physiologically with the female category. The IAAF need to be very clear about that. I fear that by using testosterone levels like this they open up men entering women’s sports.

I need to read the whole judgement

Testosterone is the most important factor in explaining the difference.

male physiology is the most important factor. Testosterone is a proxy for that.

Yes bowl totally agree. The testosterone thing a red herring

Should be biologically men and women

And are they going to be testing all women athletes and then demanding they take drugs to lower testosterone

So much wrong with this

I am waiting for the inevitable F up that will be a trans woman competing in boxing or other violence based thing. Maybe after a man saying he is a woman completely battering a woman in the ring it may cause outrage of a level where this idiocy will stop. Although there will be enough loud voices still claiming it is a woman (yeah right) and nothing wrong here.

Every ridiculous and misogynistic scenario that you can possibly conceive of, has already happened.

Hold the front page, news just in - RMcK says Transphobes on Mumsnet are really really stupid.

mobile.twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1124140651359162374

Low ROM = low range of motion, you shitbags. I was lifting the final 6" of the movement only.
Your math is hilariously off, and yet you're so proud of it. Get a better hobby than stalking me.

to be fair I was looking for their take on the powerlifter Mary Gregory story on thread Mary Gregory power lifter

Others beat me to it on the Fallon Fox story. Where is it going to end?