Advice on raising a daughter

[FatherWantingAdvice]

First time posting on mumsnet and hoping I’m putting this in the right place.

My wife and I are expecting our first child, a daughter. As you’d imagine, I’m very excited (and nervous) and have been reading all the books and online articles about newborns and toddlers...however since we’ve found out we are expecting a girl I’ve found myself with a growing interest in equality and feminism (I realise I really should of always had this interest but selfishly, if I’m honest, I haven’t) and, through further reading, understanding how early some of the gender stereotypes and expectations can become ingrained in young girls (I originally thought, naively that it wouldn’t be until teenage years that real damage could be done).

Essentially I’m hoping for some advice, I’ve read a number of articles and watched some documentaries, however, as mumsnet is comprised of predominantly women Who will know far far more about this then I ever could... I wanted to ask for your advice, tips, pointers, loved experiences or anything else you deem relevant to help a father try and ensure his words and actions help raise a girl who feels empowered and able to be anything she wants to be, pursue anything she wants to pursue.

Apologies this has become a far longer post than intended. In summary, in a modern world striving for equality, what should a father, and man in general, be doing/saying etc?

Any advice welcomed

Your wife's a woman. Why don't you talk to her?

That's not a massively helpful post, I assume he has actually spoke to his wife. What's the point of mumsnet if we're only expected to speak to those we actually know about the issue?

OP - congratulations. I don't have any tips if I'm honest. I suspect your intention to do well by your daughter will be good enough. I have a son and am trying to raise him to be a feminist by not stereotyping - my go to response is that unless it's a task that needs to be done with your genitalia then anyone can do it.
I'm also actively teaching consent (he's only 2 but he knows if he says no to tickles we will stop immediately)
A small thing but I'm really aware my natural tendency is to call everything him (I.e ooh look at hamster, isn't he cute) so I actively try to say her as much as I saw him (when appropriate)

He's chosen to put his post in the FWR section, rather than in one of the "new to parenting" sections.

Yes, I would say to OP: yes, same as PP said - ask your wife, and listen to what she has to say.

I have a toddler daughter. I actively try to female-ify characters in books/songs that just happen to be male - Old McDonald, for example. And think carefully about what qualities I praise/why it seems OK for a toddler boy to do x / wear y but not her. It’s an exercise in re-examining my prejudices tbh.

I'm not trying to be difficult but I have lots of women in my life that would not be giving sound advice on raising a daughter (most females in my family have very stereotypes views on what males and females should do/think/like)

My husband is more more of a feminist than my sister will ever be.

Op I think it's great you're interested

Maybe just try to think, would I say this to a son
Would I do this with a son

Lots of studies show that people behave differently with little girls, comment more on appearance, aren't as rough etc.
I'd recommend looking into those early childhood studies.

As time goes on, her interests, how you spend quality time together, the books you read her etc.
The most important thing is respecting her as a person, not just as a girl, and instilling confidence in her so she knows she can do what she wants. Treat her mum well too, show her how she can expect to be treated from a partner

But I think for now you, as a new born, you just want to make her feel loved, which I'm sure she will be very

As well as listening to his wife, there are other things.

Notice how often you say 'he'. In children's books, when you look at animals, when you see a group of children on TV. There are many more boys than girls. So call every dog, cat, worm, bird you see 'she'. Watch things like My Little Pony with her where the female characters are effective and different. Not the Smurfs or Paw Patrol where the girls are a sexist pink afterthought and 'female' is a character type. Have a favourite pony yourself.

Tell her she's strong and kind and interesting and funny, not beautiful all the time. Be interested in what she is interested. Don't encourage 'boys' things more than 'girls' because you value them more. Or vice versa because you think it's cute. Just let her like tutus and dinosaurs if that's what she likes.

Learn how to do the things women have to do, make costumes, bake cakes, foster friendships. Do more than you think your share of the housework is. Girls who see their fathers do it have higher aspirations in their careers.

Teach consent in all things. Don't teach her to be 'nice' and silent, teach her to speak up. Even when you're the person being challenged. Never imply or teach that her clothes/behaviour/attitude cause bad things to happen. Challenge others if they do.

Buy How to Raise a Feminist Daughter by Chimamanda Adichie. It includes things like not teaching our girls that marriage is an achievement while not teaching the boys the same. Don't blather on about boyfriends. She could be alone or a lesbian. Boys are taught girls are yucky, girls are taught to want to date them.

There are a thousand more. And importantly, now you have a female child to be vaguely feminist for, remember all the stuff you did that wasn't, and sort it out.

Don't watch porn. Never have porn in the house.

Love her mother, not just in a romance way, but truely love her for who she is as a person.
Do your share of house work (without asking for recognition)
Do your share of the mental load (without asking for recognition)
Let she,her,woman be your default language.

Just raise your child to know that they can be anything they want and can do anything they want to. To be kind and to be thoughtful. If your child wants to play with dolls cars trains or dig dirt in the garden that’s fine. If they want to wear a pink tutu or a hard hat and superman slippers that is also fine. Just raise a child with a huge sense of its own self worth and you won’t go far wrong. There are large obsticles that any child boy or girl has to overcome as long as they know that their gender isn’t one of them and they have a loving encouraging family that they can talk to you are doing all you can.

Read to her, many studies say Dad’s reading to children has a huge positive impact on the child. Mum’s reading to child does not. 🙁

Thank you for all of the responses so far they’re greatly appreciated.

To those of you encouraging me to speak with my wife... I have done and will continue to do so (she is an incredibly strong, intelligent woman) but am conscious there maybe other life and advice that can be added to what she says/does not contradict it. But @occasionalkite I heed your emphasis on actually listening to the responses (from my wife), I’m sure I’ve been guilty of not in the past ( not just my wife but, as the saying goes; ‘most of us don’t truly listen we’re just waiting for our turn to talk’) especially if it’s a criticism (perceived or but will make a conscious effort that anything on this topic (of which it goes without saying she will know more than me on) I will make sure I’m listening purely to her ‘steer’ and doing my best to adopt it. ( I realised this may provoke comments that I should be listening to her on all topics, and of course that’s true, however in most things we are an equal partnership and make decisions together).

@MrsTerryPratchett, thank you for the book suggestion...I’ve tried searching Amazon and can’t find a book with that exact title by Chimamanda, is it the one titled ‘a feminist manifesto in fifteen suggestions’? From the descriptions that one seems most likely as it references a friend asking for similar advice to mine.

The pronoun one is really interesting definitely something I’m trying to improve and start ‘helping’ others on...seems to be at work it happens a lot too...when we are hiring (therefore no actual person in the role or to refer to) and discussing responsibilities or roles that person may do on a project etc it still seems that most people, men and women, will say ‘he’...something I’m not sure I ever noticed much before...I’ve tried to say ‘he or she’ but from some of the advice from hear maybe I should just be adopting ‘she’ as the default until a position is filled.

@123456ABCDE123456 this is something i came across in the documentary that first showed me how early these biases take effect (BBC: No More Boys and Girls) and largely prompted this thread. Thank you, I will do my best to really focus on this and wasn’t aware of the cartoon differences...team My Little Pony it is!

@ICJump could I ask what the ‘mental load’ is?

Thank you so much to everyone these have been great so far, understandable and definitely even for me!

Would love to hear more

I have 2 daughters, now 18 and 15. I didn’t give anything you’ve said a thought. I just loved them, encouraged them in everything they did and it wouldn’t cross my mind that they can’t do things because they are girls. They are both intelligent, hard working and funny to be around. They don’t see barriers. My dh, although being one of 4 brothers, has always been hands on and they are as open with him about feelings etc as they are with me. Don’t overthink it, just love her as a little person not a princess.

I probably say ‘he’ all the time. It doesn’t matter.

So on a slightly different tack. Whilst my father is not a feminist. He taught me to respect everybody regardless of their position in life. This meant he treated me with respect, always. He also told me the world was my oyster. He has always had my back and he was my only parent from 14 and I have always fought my own corner and never take crap from men in relationships. I think this has a lot to do with knowing how a man can behave from my fathers example and having that solid sense of self worth instilled in me by him. He wasn't/isn't a saint but he is at heart a good person even if he is turning into a grumpy old man these days and seems surprised by the liberal tendencies he instilled in his daughter!

Hi OP,

This illustrates the mental load.

www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear

@ohholyjesus thank you!

This is definitely something I was very guilty of when we first moved in together, quickly moved to the stage of ‘offering’ not waiting to be asked but clearly that still implied it was her job and I was just helping out.

For the last few years I think we’ve had a better system, set jobs split evenly between us (unless one of us is away for a weekend etc when the other one picks up the slack) and both have roughly half the load to think about.

Clearly the arrival of our daughter is going to add to that mental (and physical) load and I must fully commit to being an equal partner, thank you b

FatherWantingAdvice

Can I marry you?!

Who is taking leave when the baby arrives? Can you share some it? It quite easy to be equal pre kids but the patterns set during maternity leave often carry on when the woman returns to work.

She will be taking maternity leave, we looked in to shared leave but unfortunately the policy at my workplace is not great (the legal minimum) so financially wasn’t feasible.

However, we’ve both spoken to our line management (avoiding some very beaurocratic and non family friendly policies) about how we can both reduce our, previously very long, hours to try and share the increased responsibility (child and life admin) and do our best so that everything remains equal

I second the post made by Erythronium;
Don't watch porn. Never have porn in the house.

And don't allow anyone to tell her that porn is harmless, or that prostitution is empowering sex work, or that mens sexual desires are different from or more important than womens.

The balance between my DH and I has improved since I returned to work and I'm now aware of how easily we slotted into a 1950s stereotype as I chose to be the SAHP (not much of a choice seeing as he earns more than me and we were earning equally when we met) so to be aware of the balance of responsibility at home is really important and if you can don't let it slip.

I have a son and honestly I think if he was a girl I would be making extra effort but I do think showing that you are a team and take equal share in housework etc will result in your daughter understanding how a balanced relationship works and how she deserves respect and support. Be her example. Be her champion. There is a lot you can learn from other threads in here so have a browse before she is born, there will be little time after so you are wise for preparing now! Best of luck to you x

Sorry Taswama, re reading my response it sounds like I’m dismissing the warning and suggesting we have it covered...definitely not the case, I imagine we have no idea, yet, just how hard it will be

I think you've had some good advice on here so far and I can only add from my experience of raising 2 girls.

Our DDs our are still young (9 & 6) and these are some of thinks we try to encourage:

No talk of diets / weight / focus on appearance too much.

Mixing up pronouns - so not always he as default

Encouraging them to try different extra curricular stuff - karate / cubs / football as well as ballet / music / craft

They see DH more than pulling his weight at home so it's normal - ironing / cooking / cleaning / laundry / helping the girls dress etc. Also includes school runs, PTA / school involvement, helping at brownies / rainbows before the switched (incredibly sad to have it pointed out he was the only Dad that attended, he is now a cub leader so still involved with them).

DH involves them with his interests without any fuss - he's in a band so one DD is learning guitar with him, they play computer games with him, watch scifi / action films, go to the football, potter in the garden / shed / garage helping with those 'male' jobs. His Dad does the same when he's with them.

I work much longer hours and travel a lot so seeing him take on all the responsibility when I'm gone rather than being spoon fed by me is positive for them.

Encouraging their voices and opinions, teaching about consent, discouraging ideas about boys and girls stuff / clothes / careers etc

I think it boils down to equality being the norm for them at home so that hopefully filters into other elements of their life as they grow up 🤞

So is your dw taking a full year including the last 3 months unpaid? Can’t you be the one to take an unpaid bit? How similar are your salaries currently? DP and I were within 2 or 3k when I went on maternity leave (I was the higher earner). 10 years (and 2dc) later he earns a lot more despite me returning both times.