Advice on raising a daughter

[FatherWantingAdvice]

First time posting on mumsnet and hoping I’m putting this in the right place.

My wife and I are expecting our first child, a daughter. As you’d imagine, I’m very excited (and nervous) and have been reading all the books and online articles about newborns and toddlers...however since we’ve found out we are expecting a girl I’ve found myself with a growing interest in equality and feminism (I realise I really should of always had this interest but selfishly, if I’m honest, I haven’t) and, through further reading, understanding how early some of the gender stereotypes and expectations can become ingrained in young girls (I originally thought, naively that it wouldn’t be until teenage years that real damage could be done).

Essentially I’m hoping for some advice, I’ve read a number of articles and watched some documentaries, however, as mumsnet is comprised of predominantly women Who will know far far more about this then I ever could... I wanted to ask for your advice, tips, pointers, loved experiences or anything else you deem relevant to help a father try and ensure his words and actions help raise a girl who feels empowered and able to be anything she wants to be, pursue anything she wants to pursue.

Apologies this has become a far longer post than intended. In summary, in a modern world striving for equality, what should a father, and man in general, be doing/saying etc?

Any advice welcomed

My father did quite a few things that were damaging to me as a daughter, despite being a kind man who superficially encouraged me to achieve highly.

He treated me slightly differently to my brother, for example praising him for his strength and being nonplussed when I naturally tried to show that I was strong too.

He did almost no parenting other than the fun bits. He was good for a Saturday bike ride but never actually did the work of day to day childcare.

He would use a certain amount of sexist or objectifying language when speaking about women in the public eye, like politicians or actresses.

He watched porn and had it on the computer. Finding it was one of the most confusing and soul destroying experiences of my childhood. Seriously, listen to Erythronium, do not watch porn and do not have it in the house.

And do everything you can to take some leave so you will be alone at home with your baby, even just for a couple of months. The benefits this will have for your family dynamic and your relationship with your child are worth it unless you really truly cannot afford it under any circumstances.

@taswama, we earn about the same at the moment, a couple of £k in it.

No, unfortunately finances don’t allow the full year, she will take 6 months and then her carried over holiday days so she can have another month at full pay.

I’m taking the paltry two weeks at the beginning (all at statutory pay) and then, with localised approval at work will roll holidays together to take as long as possible (hopefully at least six weeks) when she goes back to work.

I know it’s a common story, the salary disparity growing even once both parents are back in work...is that purely due to the time away during the two maternity’s? Or because you have to do more/perceived by your bosses to need to do more of the child raising stuff once back? Or something totally different?

Thanks @MagicMix, my father was the same regarding mainly their for the ‘fun’ stuff, unfortunately I don’t think attitudes seem to of changed much, when asked on plans for weekends/evenings etc, several of my Male friends will say “I’m stuck babysitting this weekend!” Upon further questioning, it soon becomes apparent they don’t mean babysitting, they mean parenting their own child! Normally followed by “because wife/girlfriend/partner” is away somewhere...as if that’s the only reason they’d possibly have to be the sole parent for their child(ren) and, god forbid, they should want to spend the weekend with the kids having barely seen them all week due to work! Sorry bit of a rant there, my wife and I didn’t conceive overly quickly so was a while where those comments really touched a nerve

Try to be the default parent. You won't manage it (in the early days, because of biology esp if breastfeeding; later on, societal expectations), but to the extent that you consciously try, you will even things up a bit.

So, if a nappy needs changing, do it. If a day needs taking off work to look after a sick child, do it. If clothes need buying, mending, getting a teenager to pick up off the floor... do it. Etc.

I wouldnt worry. My daughter turned out complete opposite of me. Naturally girly loves all the stereotypical stuff, i had to repaint her room pink, unicorns, princess, looking after babies and bossing her brother about. Terrible ball skills.

Sorry, but some things are nature not nurture.

He's not trying to raise a stereotype @Glitterban so it doesn't matter if she likes unicorns. What matters is that believes her choice is as valid and anyone else's, whether that's unicorns or triceratops.

FWIW I've always thought unicorns were a great thing that girls were 'allowed'. It's a fucking great big horned horse. Hardly weak or pathetic. It can defeat lions (Scotland has it as well).

It is the Feminist Manifesto one @FatherWantingAdvice

Also have a look at Man Who Has It All to see what you are likely doing and saying without thinking.

Give back any cookies you get for basic parenting. If someone says, "it's wonderful, you're so good to have the baby alone" you say "like my wife does every day?" Don't be tempted to feel that doing the very basics is amazing because you're male.

He already got an offer of marriage on this thread.

OP, three people have now mentioned not using porn to you on this thread, but you haven't addressed it. Any reason for that?

You don't use porn in or around any children, boy or girl, ever. What kind of question is that?

What do you mean what kind of a question is that? This board is called Feminism and Women's Rights if you hadn't noticed.

And what kind of parent uses porn around kids? He's asking specifically about raising a daughter. What do you have to be aware of that you don't when raising a boy. You wouldn't have porn in the house or use it around either.

Lots of men who have children of either sex use pornography. They're misogynists.

Set the bar for her future relationships. You are showing her how relationships work, how men love women and how she can, in turn, expect to be loved. Love her mother, be kind, be thoughtful, treat her how you want your DD to be treated.

And learn to do hair. Seriously. Don’t be that dad who can’t do so much as a ponytail, so a mum needs to step in (and if she happens to dance - learn how to do a ballet bun). Don’t be that dad who waits looking helplessly around for a woman to sort what his daughter needs out.

Re porn - it’s being the type of man who thinks porn is ok, views it, thinks the abuse and humiliation of women for sexual gratification is normal. It’s so common now, it’s become normalised, but it’s so extreme. It’s not about viewing it or having it in the house. Of course that’s not appropriate.

One of the nicest things I've ever seen someone write about their DH on MN was 'he always has his hands full' - either rocking a baby or carrying a toddler, or that basket of laundry or the loo rolls that need to go upstairs etc etc. Many households, the woman has hands full more of the time than the man.... you can work out for yourself what message that gives the children.

Sorry @Erythronium it wasn’t a conscious decision not to address the don’t want porn or have it in the house comments/advice, it was more that there didn’t seem to be a need for further discussion or questioning, it was a clear black and white answer of what to do/not to do.

@cheekyfeckery I’ve done nieces hair before so not starting as an absolute beginner, however, can’t say I’ve ever attempted a ballet bun...there seems to be lots of YouTube tutorials though!

I'd be surprised if that type of man thought that FWR would be able to teach him anything. I mean, the first response he got was so rude and 'fuck you MAN!', and yet he has persisted and taken a lot of the (very good) advice on board. His actions don't strike me as those of a porn-consuming misogynist. Why not add 'don't do hard drugs' to the list as well?

True Jurgen.

Father - to reply to your earlier question I think it was me becoming default parent. So it was assumed I would do childcare drop off and pick up which meant I could go on work trips easily or stay late for drinks after work for example. DP got a promotion shortly after DC1 was born which is pretty common i believe. He works pretty flexibly these days so he can do the school run twice a week etc but it’s always been ‘under the radar’ .

Could NOT go on work trips

Anyway, my advice as the dad of a daughter completing her university degree. Show her through your own marriage what a good, loving, happy relationship looks like. One of the nicest things she ever said to us was that she hoped she could find a relationship as happy as ours. Almost made me cry. But the proof is that of her one serious relationship, she went out with a man I'd have been happy for her to stay with. He was honest, kind and caring. My wife still hasn't got over them splitting up

The first reply wasn't rude, Jurgen, it certainly wasn't "fuck you". It's quite reasonable to ask a man why he's not talking to the woman closest to him about bringing up his daughter rather than a bunch of strangers on an internet board. When I became a feminist I don't remember ever making demands on other women to do my work for me, I read around feminism, thought about it and paid attention to the world around me.

Ordinary average men are users of porn. It's incredibly common. There simply isn't a way of telling which man does and which man doesn't, especially not from reading a few posts on an internet board. A PP has already said she was exposed to porn through seeing her father's search history. That isn't uncommon either, which is why children need protecting by men (fathers in this case) not using pornography.

Why not add 'don't do hard drugs' to the list as well?

Because unlike hard drugs, pornography is the sexual subordination of women by men. It broadcasts and reinforces misogyny to any man who uses it and it is deeply harmful to women and girls. This man is asking advice about bringing up his daughter. Not taking part in misogynistic practices would rate pretty high on that list wouldn't it?

This is slightly bugging me now OP, but you still haven't actually said you won't use it.

Wow, Jurgen, just seen how you interpreted my post!

Very revealing!

As was your post. The person directly after you made the same point. What does that reveal about her?

In all my years lurking on here, I've never once seen a woman turned away with 'go and read the manual'. Never ever. It's always, quite rightly, welcome to the club.

And what if his wife is a handmaiden, or whatever you call them? Or someone not aware of feminism, as so many women aren't? And you never once asked advice of another feminist? Really? That is most of what this board is!

Women actually come on here and ask which books are useful or worth reading. Why would they be turned away?

The comparison wouldn't be a woman asking advice from a feminist, although what goes on here is mostly news reporting and analysis, not advice. The comparison would be a white person rolling up to an anti-racism board and asking people of colour advice on how not to be a racist. I've never done that either and never would. Male entitlement often means that men expect women to do the work for them and for them to get cookies for even the most cursory nod to feminism (e.g. offers of marriage). That may not be what is going on here, but it's worth bearing in mind that it can happen.

Equally revealing, I thought, was your comment that the proof your daughter found a relationship as good as yours was that she went out with a man you'd have been happy for her to stay with.