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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Train

60 replies

BessyK · 27/04/2019 15:48

As the mother of a ROGD teen i'd like to share this documentary from Sweden (translated into English).
The Trans Train www.svtplay.se/video/22035454/uppdrag-granskning/uppdrag-granskning-sasong-20-the-trans-train?start=auto&tab=2019

OP posts:
NotTerfNorCis · 27/04/2019 16:27

Poor Sametti. She looks totally androgynous now and there's no going back.

BessyK · 27/04/2019 16:39

The changes are permanent once our children begin following the medical pathway.

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TheChampagneGalop · 27/04/2019 17:09

The brought home how much T alters a girl's voice. Sametti got her breasts removed too. These are serious lasting changes. No one is ready to make this decision as a teenager, especially not at 14 (!!!!)

TheChampagneGalop · 27/04/2019 17:12

*This brought home

Genderfreelass · 27/04/2019 17:21

So sad but I think girls, (seems more girls being trans whereas men wait until midlife crisis 😕) realising the mistake and taking legal action may be what is needed to derail the train. If through legal action it becomes too costly to transition minors then it surely will have to stop?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 27/04/2019 18:12

What happened to the Hippocratic Oath, and “First, do no harm”??

Melroses · 27/04/2019 18:15

I have just come from watching this, having found it on Twitter.

It really highlights the 'consensual' dilemma - that they will give hormones and surgery unquestioningly to young people with many problems (as young as 16 and mastectomy for a 14y old - yet that it will be the responsibility of that teenager if they later regret what has been done.

Where is the support? Support is helping the young person find out about all the aspects of what it is they want to do, the good and the bad and the indifferent, to make an informed decision. It is not unquestioning affirmation. You have to teach them to question everything in this world.

MIdgebabe · 27/04/2019 19:20

Misinterpreted the title. Made me think of transpennine railway. Which is across the Pennines. Which makes transwomen across women , not to or towards women at all, and more like cut across women which is what what bullying aggressive drivers do.

Erythronium · 27/04/2019 19:22

Wow, they've even come up with a name for the bad feelings a medical professional gets when they irreversibly damage a child's healthy young body - "ethical stress'. Very stressful for them I imagine.

Sweden seem to have fallen even further down the trans rabbit hole, if they're going to allow 12 year olds to change "gender" and let 15 year olds be castrated as long as their parents approve.

How can all these psychiatrists and pyschotherapists not draw the parallels with anorexia, whose patients also experience extreme distress with their bodies? In that case the answer isn't to take away their patients food, so why is harming bodies fine when it's sexual characteristics that are causing the distress?

placemats · 27/04/2019 19:33

Watched this and posted the link on another thread. It's heartbreaking. Interesting that ROGD is not just confined to the UK.

Something is happening to our young female teenagers and it's toxic. The outcome is bleak.

TheChampagneGalop · 27/04/2019 19:38

Interesting that ROGD is not just confined to the UK.

No, it's happening in the US (isn't that the origin?) and all over Europe. It's thanks to social media.

NotTerfNorCis · 27/04/2019 19:42

let 15 year olds be castrated as long as their parents approve

I thought that was without parental consent.

Erythronium · 27/04/2019 19:46

Obviously my ears blocked that out NTNC. Horrific.

PegLegAntoine · 27/04/2019 19:59

What happened to the Hippocratic Oath, and “First, do no harm”??

Doing nothing is as good as doing harm though, because they’ll all rush off and commit suicide, apparently.

RedToothBrush · 27/04/2019 22:14

ethical stress
A euphemism for 'knowing something to be unethical but being complicit in it anyway'.

Moominfan · 27/04/2019 22:21

Just placemarking

Voice0fReason · 27/04/2019 22:29

Heartbreaking and infuriating. These kids deserve so much better.

Goosefoot · 27/04/2019 22:31

Something that really struck me in this though is that they didn't actually talk a whole lot about the supposed suicide statistics. I am wonderig if this is a cultural thing, because what they did talk about was not letting people suffer - I think this may be something that you see a stronger thread in some European countries, that suffering is really not allowable. You hear very similar language when you read about some of the assisted suicide and euthanasia programs.

While I think the suicide narrative seems stronger in English speaking countries, I wonder if a real discomfort with suffering might underly some of the strange behaviour from doctors and clinics. Normal teenage suffering, or even the suffering of mental illness which is terrible, but sometimes unavoidable, is seen in a twisted sort of way.

I see similar things with young people in other settings, such as the university - there is a real sense of being easily broken and delicate, and they seem to have been so protected growing up. Suffering, to them, means something is wrong and needs to be fixed.

AnyOldPrion · 27/04/2019 23:42

”What happened to the Hippocratic Oath, and “First, do no harm”??”

”Doing nothing is as good as doing harm though, because they’ll all rush off and commit suicide, apparently.”

I realise your reply is probably sarcasm, but that Swedish male gender doctor’s attitude is despicable. Doing nothing is not the only alternative. If a fourteen year old girl is so distressed by her breasts that she can’t go out, then she needs intensive psychiatric help. The last thing she needs is mutilation of her healthy body.

Worse still that he’s saying it’s not his responsibility because the young person and the parents consent. They’re relying on the advice of a doctor and he’s lying on a number of levels, not least that they have no idea what the levels of regret will be in this new and very different patient cohort.

It also struck me how much harder it is for these young women to detransition than men. Not just the social stigma and ostracism from the community that pretended to support them, which is bad enough. But many of them will never, ever again “pass” as the women they are.

I got the impression the doctors are blinded. They’ve been doing this so long that they can’t stop, even though it’s glaringly obvious the situation has changed and it’s no longer safe.

But then came the section at the end. They’re rushing laws through that will do yet more damage. For the young people who will have to live with the consequences, it’s desperately sad.

Italiangreyhound · 28/04/2019 00:22

BessyK thank you for sharing this.

It was very interesting, heartbreaking too of course, but actually quite balanced, I felt.

The medical profession (worldwide) needs to be honest and take a hard look at itself. Surgery at 14, it is crazy.

LeftHandDown · 28/04/2019 00:37

That is such a sad video on so many fronts and leaves more questions unanswered than it actually answered.

How the hell are ethics committees pushing this through when the evidence before them is saying 'we don't know' to so many aspects?

'We never say no any more', why not when as many as 60% have other MH issues? Since when is medication and surgery the first option rather than the last resort?

Erythronium · 28/04/2019 01:04

The doctor supporting mastectomies for teenagers was a monster.

Another area which would be a magnet for dodgy people. Ethical and sane physicians wouldn't touch this.

Lots of teenagers don't go out of their rooms for years. Better that than chopping their breasts off and poisoning them permanently with testosterone.

Italiangreyhound · 28/04/2019 01:05

I know, bits of it were very creepy.

BessyK · 28/04/2019 08:34

Thank you Italiangreyhound for taking the time to watch and share your views.

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Italiangreyhound · 28/04/2019 08:53

BessyK wee have a trans identifying child in wider family, it's personal for us. Please feel free to PM me. Flowers