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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Straight men learning to "cope" with transwomen's bodies

92 replies

Lamaha · 27/04/2019 07:20

Yes, finally! They are going after the men. Some weekend entertainment:
www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07/03/transgender-activist-straight-men-should-work-through-non-attraction-to-transgender-women?utm_content=buffer949cf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=glennbeck&fbclid=IwAR1b0p17JfvbGJxs9SjY_Q05KqUapC5Q_Nofm_f3WUj86vslsAHYAASnknY

Watch now as men begin to see that transideology affects them, too, and start to trans peak en masse.

The blindness and entitlement is beyond belief. Apparently there are incredible numbers of straight men who want us but refuse to ever admit to it, and cover it with transphobia

Here's the twitter thread, for a good laugh: twitter.com/ZJemptv/status/881284028548173824

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 28/04/2019 19:54

Worth remembering that sexual fantasies are not the same thing as orientation, and what men choose to watch on porn sites etc. isn't necessarily anything to do with their orientation. At least, given the preponderance of violence and incest themes in porn, I'd be pretty reticent to be making definitive pronouncements based on what gives men erections and orgasms. I certainly wouldn't be suggesting that because certain men enjoy the idea of extremely feminine presenting penis owners they are simply heterosexual because of some silly idea that feminine = woman.

Michelleoftheresistance · 28/04/2019 20:07

You're attracted to who you're attracted to and that's great, whatever your orientation or attraction.

The issue to me is when someone is instructed, shamed and coerced to 'learn' or 'cope with' sex outside of their sexual orientation in order to validate someone's identity in opposition to their natural physical reality, and the other person's choices, orientation and boundaries. Because this is some kind of social responsibility. And women should not 'gatekeep' their vaginas. Or something.

FloralBunting · 28/04/2019 20:16

Michelle, quite. I find it very odd that the essence of our complaint is that no one should be lied to or feel pushed in whatever way to have sex with someone primarily for the gratification of that other person, and this is so often countered with guff about 'loving whoever you love' etc.

It's emphatically not love if you've been pressured into it in any way. One of the saints in my religion says "The opposite of love is not hate, it's use". It says everything to me that this ideology repeatedly uses positive words like freedom and love for what is coercion and using others selfishly.

Persifleur · 28/04/2019 20:16

Some men are satisfied with a warm f-hole, no matter who it's attached to. It's a bit tragic if anyone is getting validation from that. TW need the warning that every mother gives her daughter about Some Men.
Why do I suspect that would go in deaf ears?

Persifleur · 28/04/2019 20:19

Oops, wrong thread.
Or perhaps not. Confused

Michelleoftheresistance · 28/04/2019 20:23

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's use"

Beautifully put. That's one I shall be remembering.

FloralBunting · 28/04/2019 20:24

Persifleur, if that's a mispost on the wrong thread, it's one of the most appropriate mistakes I've read. You've encapsulated what I was trying to say in my post about porn etc. very neatly.

LinoleumBlownapart · 28/04/2019 20:28

If you have to "work through" or learn to "cope" with someone's body for a sexual relationship to progress then that sexual relationship and the rest of the relationship is pretty much doomed. I know that's hard to cope with and it just be soul destroying for many transwomen, but it's reality. We have no fairy dust, magic potions or cures for human nature.

Persifleur · 28/04/2019 20:33

Heh, thanks Floral. I'm on my mobile and useless at keeping tracks of threads on it. But it suddenly struck me that the advice about Some Men is pretty universal and I don't know how NAMALT was ever allowed to drown it out.
Actually, I do: it's encapsulated in the satirical malopropism: 'I resemble that remark!'

3timeslucky · 29/04/2019 11:12

@mummy2017
When you say "So confused...
Your a man you date a transwoman, find out she is pre op...Finish relationship. As you wanted a wife and family...
You find out it,'s post op... You can have a family. But your sleeping with a biological male so is this now a gay relationship?."
Are you assuming that a TW who is post op is fertile and can get pregnant/give birth? Even post op that's not an option AFAIK.

Lamaha · 29/04/2019 12:19

@Victoria, re punctuation etc.I notice that some recent posts on this thread seem to have lost this admirable quality. And yes, I think it matters, because when people can’t express their thoughts coherently, that almost invariably means they’re not thinking coherently either.

Agreed. I find these posts so incoherent I need to reread each sentence several times and still can't follow. In the end I just stop reading those posts.
The whole subject is confusing enough, what with the gender/sex, gay/straight confusion.
It's my belief that outside of the trans/porn community almost all straight men would be pretty horrified at the idea of dating/having sex with/marrying transwomen. There are definite genetic reasons for that. Ditto for women. If I were looking for a relationship transmen would be ruled out from the onset and no amount of screaming "transphobe" at me would budge me.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/04/2019 12:37

If I were looking for a relationship transmen would be ruled out from the onset

yup. I'm straight. I don't want to have sex with women. the thought of it does nothing for me.

But females who feel compelled to comply with masculine stereotypes don't have much form for trying to pressure other women into having sex with them.

MoleSmokes · 29/04/2019 14:10

Rose of Dawn talks about how the "dating pool" for transsexuals shrinks pre-op and then further again post-op citing her (transsexual MtF) experience of being contacted by men on a dating site (Hello Cupid?).

As expected, they asked whether she was pre-op or post-op and most were NOT interested when they found she was post-op, ie. had had "bottom surgery".

(I can't remember which video it was:
www.youtube.com/user/AshleeK9/videos )

Rose is not surprised by this, ie. that more men have a "kink" for "tits and dick" than for "tits and fake fanny" (please mentally convert to latinate equivalents if Plain English offends - my brain is not up to it at the moment). Also that the few men going for "post-op" transsexuals are not in it for the long haul, as most want a future that includes a family where they expect to father children.

Obviously, TW (both pre-op and post-op) claiming/bragging that men find them more sexually desirable than women never frame this as their admirers having a "kink" or fetish.

Some people have a "kink" for amputees but we don't see amputees bragging that this means they are therefore more sexually desirable generally. Instead, this usually causes sadness and frustration when seen as sex objects rather than as "real people" and sometimes difficulty trusting that "romantic interest" is genuine:

"What’s your crutch? The bizarre world of amputee fetishes"
drmarkgriffiths.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/whats-your-crutch-the-bizarre-world-of-amputee-fetishes/

"How I Came to Terms with People Fetishising My Disability"
(author is a lesbian fetishised by lesbians)
www.vice.com/en_uk/article/vdxa34/how-i-came-to-terms-with-people-fetishizing-my-disability

Miranda Yardley has an interesting blog post on the real goal for (some?) TW being acceptance by straight men:

"The Cotton Ceiling":
mirandayardley.com/en/the-cotton-ceiling/

Blog post ends:

The cotton ceiling is a red herring. The problem lies not with women refusing to accept transwomen as partners, it lies with men who will, generally, fuck pretty much anything (women, transwomen, goats, cars, mattresses…)

Transwomen find no difficulty getting a man to accept them for sexual purposes, even as far as discrete dates (usually very discrete, what with being a dirty little secret an’ all) but they will never, ever introduce their transwoman partner to their friends or around for dinner with their mum.

This is ‘The Plastic Pocket Protector’ – until men as a class accept it’s all right, it’s acceptable, to have a partner who is a transwoman, the validly of transwomen as people deserving of having a loving, equal and sustainable relationship is negated.

Here is the battle to be fought by transwomen: a battle to be accepted as something other than fetishised sexual objects, a shame, a hidden vice to be used and discarded at will.

Our battle is not against women or lesbians, our battle is against our dehumanisation, objectification and misuse by men.

TemporaryPermanent · 29/04/2019 19:10

I don't know what the 'Some Men' advice is. My mother's sexual advice was veiled in the extreme but was basically situational. No sex until married: if you're in a man's room or a hotel or a taxi alone with a man, you should expect to be raped, though of course it won't BE rape as you were asking for it. Family negates this risk entirely, so that even the most distant third cousin will never be a risk to you.

Much more like 'All Men' in fact.

MoleSmokes · 01/05/2019 02:20

@TemporaryPermanent My school friend's mum always warned us that if I man invited you to sit on the grass (!) next to him then he took off his socks you had to run away fast - before he strangled you with them!

We never dared ask how she knew this.

mummmy2017 · 01/05/2019 07:01

3timeslucky..
Wish there was edit button.

Should be can't have a family...
I meant if they don't tell you, but you fall in love with them. Your cheated out of having a family, as not possible.

3timeslucky · 01/05/2019 10:47

@mummy2017
Ah, I get you (and yes an edit button would be useful when you realise you've a typo).

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