I've lost my daughter to trans activism

[slipperywhensparticus]

First year at uni and she is lost

I've known she is a lesbian for ages it doesn't bother me

She now believes Julia long is violent aggressive and deserves to be forcibly removed for thinking about asking questions

Men are allowed to be women if that's how they feel

Biology is not reality

The female brain is real

Karen white is a rare example and it was only once it's not enough to get worked up about

She considers herself part of the trans community despite considering herself female

She believes women can have penises

Fucks sake I hate this she isnt even bothered about sharing toilets and changing rooms with men

I'm giving up why should I fight when my only reason to protect women's spaces isnt bothered fuck it all

I agree with @EvaHarknessRose - don't go head to head, it'll drive her hard towards the TRA camp and set her against you. I'd trust her to come round to things in her own time rather than making an issue of it, nothing you can say will change her mind, but hopefully over time she will listen to other women's voices.

Ps Jaydis Argipope in the Ben Boyce film makes a big point that anyone can commission a weak study to show anything they want to show and use that to gaslight and perpetuate the denial of biological reality.

There are actual structures in the male and female brains that are different. This doesn't translate into skills, likes and preferences for 'gendered' activities, clothes and skills.

I do feel as though students on some courses feel as though they have to accept the trans narrative in order to fit in even if if means ignoring their own discomfort with the narrative.

Also agree with what newtlover said about the way that raising your kids to be thoughtful about sex and gender issues and also shielding them as best you can do (which is what a lot of us are trying to do) makes them possibly less prepared by life experience to think critically about (or less still be able to speak out against) the TWAW narrative which will be presented to students as ‘the norm’, always presented in emotive terms referencing suicide and anti-transwomen violence (.. ignoring the sex based violence against women that pervades our culture and the numbers of women killed every week in the UK by men..) but your daughter will get it in time because she already has got the fundamentals from how you’ve brought her up.

Maybe ask her to think about why she thought those lesbians lay down in front of the Pride March last year? They’re not doing it because they are old and stupid. They’re doing it because they are brave as fuck and (rightly) see lesbianism as being existentially threatened by current TRA politics.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299646-Lesbians-protest-at-London-Pride-getthelout?pg=1&order=

getthelout.wordpress.com/2018/07/05/the-journey-begins/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301033-Get-the-L-Out-Statement-by-the-lesbian-protesters-at-Pride-London

and is it right that so many lesbians say they are uncomfortable in a supposedly lesbian and gay-friendly space these days?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3443042-The-misogyny-continues-in-Manchesters-Gay-Village

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350481-Homophobic-attack-against-lesbians-at-Manchester-Pride

Because of these politics that advantage men?

Gay men get it too- see Jonny Best’s writing on Medium and petition to Stonewall.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3337410-Artistic-Director-of-Queer-Up-North-speaks-out-on-trans-activism-Stonewall-and-womens-rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall

and also she might be interested to see the recent survey of lesbians by Angela C Wilde.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3547287-Fantastic-report-from-Get-The-L-Out-please-share-widely?watched=1&msgid=86624632#86624632

Also for an easy to follow setting out of the issues can look up Magdalen Berns’ videos on YouTube.

Your daughter has a whole lesbian community available to her. This anti-woman community is not her only option, just might take her a while to see it for what it is.

Peachyogurt's bicycle is a simplified example of Wittgensten's Set Theory:

A thing belongs to a given set because there are a number of attributes associated with that set. A thing may not posess all the attributes, and may also posess other attributes not associated with the set, but the preponderance of the associated attributes tends to denote the thing.

In plain language, "If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, it's a duck."

Fans of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance would recognise this as the Perception of Quality. You know what a duck is. You just do.

With the biological sexes, the perception of sex works like this, but the underlying reality is much simpler. It's down to the Y Chromasome. If you have it, you are male. If you don't, you can only be female.

Masculinity and Femininity, whole other crock of stuff.

Ask if she would be okay with having sex with a transwoman who still has full male anatomy.

OP, have you been able to ask your daughter this killer question?

What did she say?

Also for an easy to follow setting out of the issues can look up Magdalen Berns’ videos on YouTube.

Magdalen Berns describing her experience at Edinburgh University & an explanation of NUS policies & power abuses:

'NUS Safespace & No-Platform Censorship'

OP, remember that the brain doesn't fully mature till age 25 or so. At the age your daughter is at, it's still difficult to take an objective perspective on things, and to separate out the desire to believe something is true from objective reality. She wants/needs to believe this stuff because being socially accepted depends on it. I can remember being in a similar place at Uni (although the beliefs were different), and the way my mind worked at the time. Once she's left that environment, and her brain is more mature, her views will probably begin to shift.

I cant ask her the question long story short she was molested wont even use tampons funds the thought of anything going "up there" hideous and needs therapy but will never get it on the NHS my biggest fear is she will get to involved and get herself into a situation she cant get out of I hate that she has chosen a far away uni but accepted it was her time to fly this is unfortunately my reality and my worst nightmare

I really wouldn't ask her that question directly.

Because while it may make her confront her cognitive dissonance, she might not resolve it in the way you would want.
Ie, by asking herself "am I hypocrite to think twaw but not want to sleep with one?" She may find herself forced to choose between the two conflicting beliefs, and that is risky if she's desperate to be "nice" "tolerant" and fit in with current woke think.

I think reinforcing how healthy and essential personal boundaries are in conversations unrelated to the gender debate, when you are both on ideologically neutral ground is a much better tactic.

Gently challenge some of the doctrine in a roundabout way, and let her come round in her own time, without forcing the issue.

No one that age likes being told what to think by their parents (even when the parents are right!)

oh dear OP she will be very vulnerable then
all the more reason to keep communicating
difficult

Thanks fanny

Is there any mileage in the conflict between "if they hurt peoples feelings" where people means men, and the way feminists are being told to shut up and viewed as hysterical? Why are some people's feelings more precious than women's? Hasn't she hurt your feelings by saying that questions must not be asked?

I’d just avoid it as much as possible- don’t let this get between you and your daughter. The more you push, the more you might drive her the other way

That's where I'm going with this is avoiding conflict I'm hoping she is as good a kid as I hope I've raised she is quite challenging but she has never really challenged me this much before it was a surprise and a half I'm hoping I've given her the tools to think about things and she will see sense when she sees what is going on in front of her...I hope

That's a sensible approach OP. They still need us when they hit their late teens, early twenties, but it must be on their terms, not ours (so frustrating )
I tried to adopt a studied indifference - bloody difficult when I was desperate to know but so important in letting them spread their wings and be independent. They have to rebel and reject - that's how they turn into independent adults rather than clones of our brilliant selves!

Is your daughter not entitled to disagree with you? Does she have to be a mini me or beyond the pale?

If you condemn her for having a different view and are melodramatic about it (‘my worst nightmare’) she will separate herself from you (hence, probably, a uni far away).

She may change her views over time but it will not be due to her mother ramming her views down her throat. However, if you do not give her the freedom to have her own views, you will lose her.

How awful for you. Each generation finds a way to rebel against its parents but trans is on another level entirely.

Agree with everybody else who has said just stay off the subject, to avoid conflict or pushing her away. Keep lines of communication friendly and positive - trans shouldn't come between mothers and daughters.

So she is a handmaiden rather than trans? I would hold out hope that once she finishes UNI she will find reality. What is she studying? Asking because I wonder if certain fields may be targeted more by the TRA?

I've never rammed my views down her throat and maybe if the police had prosecuted instead of claiming lack of evidence she might not have gone so far maybe if closer unis had offered the right course she would have stayed closer I've never expected her to be a mini fucking me

I expected her not to deny reality she has always had a logical brain why she now believes men can change sex have a female brain and can be a woman with a functioning penis is beyond me she claims hormones stop the function of a penis but apparently "the press" never report that "femanists" are responsible for what the press print men who become women are all fluffy and harmless they should be allowed in women's sports we are jealous of them being faster biological advantages are meaningless they are better end of umm they are simply no threat to us at all of course they can go into ladies changing rooms no one should be looking anyway (she wont change in public changing rooms so is talking out her arse on that one) now I've written it down I can see I'm clearly expecting too much

"femanists" are responsible for what the press print
wtf
Feminists.... Responsible..... Press...
With...
"Good dad murdered his wife"
"Rape victim was drunk so it wasn't rape"
"Woman not woman secretly filmed other women in toilets"
"Rapist committed 100 crimes against 60 women. Her victims included friends from church..."
"... her erect penis" (Karen White)
Etc etc etc

The press is male dominated, male centric, male apologist, written by men, for men.
Sorry. Your daughter has a lot of growing up to do. I'm sure she's lovely.

she claims hormones stop the function of a penis

She's wrong. Often they do, not always. And not all take them.

I can only imagine how upsetting this is. I think it must be so hard for young women at college. They are surrounded by this stuff, she would probably be an outcast amongst her friends if she didn’t buy into it. Personally, I’d avoid discussion. Don’t try to change her mind. If you do, she will only become more entrenched. When she is older, when she has experienced the world and ceases to be in an echo chamber, good sense will hopefully prevail. I am already thinking of my approach when/if my DD becomes indoctrinated.

I cant ask her the question long story short she was molested wont even use tampons funds the thought of anything going "up there" hideous and needs therapy but will never get it on the NHS my biggest fear is she will get to involved and get herself into a situation she cant get out of I hate that she has chosen a far away uni but accepted it was her time to fly this is unfortunately my reality and my worst nightmare

This is very sad.

OP, it seems to me that you and your DD both have a lot going on - past trauma, potential counselling needs, flying the nest, and all sorts of other things. It's sometimes easier to displace these personal things by siting the conflict about something political. All I'd say is this: difficult as it is, don't lose sight of the personal in a battle over the political. PPs are saying ignore it and minimise the conflict but do take care about this: ignoring it may mean you miss signs of things that could need your intervention/help.

I wish you the absolute best with all of it.

She is lovely unfortunately she is lost I was hoping time away from the area all the memories would help her center herself again I'm a bit lost myself to be honest it's been five long years and I still live in the same house I need to move change myself around a bit and crack on with support for us all

Sounds like your daughter is a decent human being.