Jacqueline Wilson "very worried" about gender surgery and hormones for children

[ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles]

https://apple.news/AkW03ywkSS_auVBEKsgSPHw

As marbles says, there has also been a lot of pressure on the NHS to change the policy. Besides, puberty blockers can be bought privately - hence the controversy over Helen Webberley. As for surgery, there is nothing to stop those who can afford it going outside the UK to countries where there are different rules.

SG has Tweeted her approval of having no lower age limit for the prescription of drugs.

While I was looking for the NHS guidelines for prescribing puberty blockers, I came across this page on their site.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/think-your-child-might-be-trans-or-non-binary/

We now believe that gender identity is on a spectrum, with male at one end, female at the other and a "diversity" of gender identities in between. These can include male and female, non-binary or even agender (no gender).

This page includes a link to GIRES, from where you can be directed to Mermaids and all sorts of other dubious organisations.

The youngest child that GIDS has prescribed blockers to is 10. That is a young child. Once children take blockers, they go onto have surgery. Without blockers, 80% desist

This is good. Well done to JW. Can Judy Blume say something next please?

Re: puberty blockers - they can be given at tanner stage 2 and tanner stage 3, I believe.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanner_scale

Well done JW for her very common s3nse and caring comments. I will definitely be buying all her books for dd when she's a bit older and now even happier to do so.

Haven't GIDS clinicians been under huge pressure form lobby groups hence why so many (18 in 5 years) have resigned and 5 spoke out about it to The Times? Did the Cheif exec or someone resign for same reason? Pressure groups scaring/encouraging parents to get kids on drugs sooner rather than following the watch and wait approach 😕 Dodgy Dr's and lobby groups are making money out of it though so not going to stop without a fight.

Which reminds me, anything concrete from JKR yet?

The quote from the NHS above!! About 'gender identity on a spectrum'. Does anyone know when that was put on the website? Apols if it's been mentioned before, but that's awful.

Sorry - don't mean to derail. Great to hear about Jackie W.

I'm fine with the idea that gender identity is on a spectrum -- or rather two. There is a full spectrum of behaviours and inner personalities for males, from stereotypically feminine to masculine, and equally, a full spectrum for females. Huge overlap, but noticeable clustering around two broad peaks. The influence of personal experience, hormones, background reading, fist size, culture etc will affect where each individual lies on that spectrum, I'm sure.

It just doesn't affect your actual sex. How could it?

It's great that she has spoken out. So many TRAs on Twitter saying that young children are never given drugs....that's complete bollocks isn't it?

At what age would they be given cross sex hormones after being on blockers?

The concepts of masculine and feminine are really limiting.

So much easier to say we have sexed bodies but all the other stuff is up for grabs by whoever, even if some clustering is observed.

So if they aren’t given medication, what was dr wobbly in trouble for prescribing? Jelly babies?

She's advocated for girls for a long time. Written about girls and talked about them and to them. Written books centring girls that sometimes even get put on suggestion lists for boys to read (generally it is believed boys won't read books with female main characters. Phillip Pullman aside.)

I hope very much that she refuses to be drawn into further statements unless she is absolutely certain she knows facts and figures. That she stays strong.

And that she finds it possible to not write about this at all despite the air it is swallowing.

Yeah, I could do with some better terms than 'masculine and feminine', which is why I stuck 'stereotypically' in there.

I'm a newbie when it comes to feminist discussion so just feeling my way through the ideas, effects and harms. Like JW, though, I find it all too easy to see the harm when it involves trying to turn a boy into a partial replica of a girl or vice versa, and then having them live life either terrified that someone will find out, or in a fury at anyone who isn't deceived.

Right, well, off to buy a few JW books for DD now. Good for her, also good to hear she centres girls in her writing, even more reason to buy her books.

Yeah, I could do with some better terms than 'masculine and feminine', which is why I stuck 'stereotypically' in there.

Sure! I agree.

The trouble with masc/fem as concepts is they sort of concede a point, a bit like the concept/word(s) ‘trans woman’ - using language that gives credence to something while trying to dismantle it.

Not sure if I’m explaining what I mean very well...

Jacqueline Wilson raising these concerns. Keep going.

What age are puberty blockers given from?

Since they are meant to block puberty there isn’t much reason to give them to adults.

Anyone on puberty blockers is basically a child by definition.

And since almost all of those out onto blockers will ‘progress’ to hormones and/or surgery it’s bullshit for anyone to claim we don’t trans kids.

Maybe we should push for the minimum age for puberty blockers to be set at 18.

Re puberty blockers:
"The earliest these drugs can be used is at Tanner stage 2 of puberty." Read more here:
www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers/
and here:
www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-safe/

You can have puberty blockers whenever you like in Dundee.

www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/seven-children-under-16-in-dundee-taking-drugs-to-delay-puberty-as-they-question-their-gender/

and if you complain you are a utter cunt, according to the NB councillor. Who dresses like any other male bodied person.

www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/complaint-made-against-dundee-councillor-over-alleged-abuse-relating-to-trans-rights/

It's a great statement and especially the comment about needing to be very mature before making such life changing decisions.

I hope more children's authors speak up.

we surely shouldn't be giving puberty blockers for anyone - it's essential for the body and brain to go through puberty. The body doesn't get puberty wrong.

I know I’m always banging on about kids with cancer, but well, it is my current specialised subject (sadly).

Precocious puberty can occur as one of what’s referred to as the ‘late term effects’ of childhood cancer.

Compare this info:

curesearch.org/Early-Puberty-Summary
curesearch.org/Early-Precocious-Puberty

to the sorts of ‘totally reversible, no harm done’ gumph that surrounds the use of puberty blockers for gender nonconforming kids and it becomes painfully obvious that the cohort of kids who have been prescribed blockers for decades years is completely non-comparable to kids with otherwise healthy bodies.

Wow. I hope they dont get to her. We heard her speak and she's amazing.

I hope shes3on mumsnet.