WPUK and Lyra McKee

[Tartie]

Namechanger...

WPUK are currently under attack for posting about Lyra McKee as part of their "Women Icons" series. Lyra is the journalist that was shot dead a few days ago. She was gay and supported trans rights. Thus, a lot of people are angry with WPUK for doing this.

I must admit, I'm on the fence here. I think it's nice for WPUK to post a tribute, but I also think that it may be too soon...

My grandad was active in politics. When he died, many from the opposing party (whom he vehemently opposed on every issue and fought against) sent my family respectful condolences.

Those tribute added to our comfort in our time of grief. Even those he opposed, respected what a fine and wonderful man he was.

Paying tribute to someone does not imply they agreed with you on every issue!

Some of those comments to WPUK seem to frame Lyra purely as a “trans ally,” not a person in her own right.

You’re right sorry - still there. I’m glad.

Yes OP I don’t think you needed to NC for this, hope you’re not feeling too beleaguered.

I think some of the terseness in replies is because a new name might be a covert op by the Anime Army, fishing for screenshots.

Sometimes you just have to do what feels like the decent thing, irrespective of whether everyone likes it. I think waiting a few weeks / months would have smacked of image management and been the worst possible move.

As for worrying about your reputation - I've been in arguments on FWR. I may have argued with people on this thread. I don't remember and anyway who cares - with the greatest respect to other posters, they are not my friends or family and this is an anonymous forum.

Well yes quite stumbledin - this is not a monothought clique and I resent the implication that it is.

And to return tangentially to the OP's abortion analogy - I am vehemently pro-choice. I can still condemn the assaults on the women who protest against abortion clinics because male violence is still male violence, no matter the beliefs of the the women being assaulted.

If you (not PP, we all know who) think mainstream groups should not be allowed to offer condolences or should be stopped from speaking then you are watching mainstream, reasonable politics from the wrong side of that line.

I don't feel this way - I actually agree with the PP who wrote so beautifully about rivals coming together in grief. But I understand it.

If you focus on individual items all political parties are controversial. The policy I was thinking for the Tories was the DWP and PIP payments. You could equally say anti semitism for Labour. And yes, for people who see questioning trans ideology as literal violence I can see how they would compare them to the BNP.

As I say; I don't agree. And while I think a statement clarifying that although there are political difference respect should be given would be a good idea, I absolutely support WPUK's having posted a tribute.

So many people these days see the world as black and white. People here tend to he a bit more nuanced. We can see that someone can be treated fairly and kindly while not accepting they are the sex they wish they were. We recognise that people have good and bad in them, that we may agree on some things and be against others.

Although WPUK was founded in response to the erosion of women's rights due to TRA ideology, it is so much more than that. It is about supporting women, raising them up and celebrating their achievements. Whatever you feel about trans issues that is something all women (and men!) should be able to support and such it is absolutely right that they celebrate and mourn this inspirational woman.

Having looked at the tweets, is it part of the trouble is that WPUK didn’t mention in their tweet that Lyra was a staunch trans ally?

The standard form for tributes to adversaries includes a respectful acknowledgement that their views or values were opposed to yours.

Lyra may have been a trans ally but it was not the primary focus of her work. I had previously read some of her investigative journalism and the moving piece about coming out as a lesbian. I did not read anything about trans issues. It might have been somewhat different had she been an active campaigner to defund, no-platform and smear groups like Women's Place UK, like many of her contemporaries. But she was not.

I'm so sick of transactivists making everything, EVERYTHING about them.

WPUK welcome debate and conversation from everyone. Their meetings are genuinely inclusive and encourage everyone to speak, regardless of their views, as long as they are respectful and not abusive.

Imo, they bend over backwards to listen to all voices - more than perhaps is comfortable for many of us.

They are not 'adversarial' in their objectives. They want to protect the current rights of women and children and make sure women are part of the debate around any potential
changes to the law.

Anyone who objects to their tribute to Lyra have either not thought this through or are deliberately taking advantage.

Which is pretty grim under the circumstances.

I doubt Lyra liked The daily mail but i don't see the outrage at them printing an obituary for her or The sun giving extensive coverage to her murder.

By coincidence, the former Celtic footballer Billy McNeill died today. Despite the rivalry, Rangers football club and lots of Rangers fans have been tweeting tributes to him. This is the norm, not attacking people or organisations expressing sympathy and admiration.

I doubt Lyra liked The daily mail but i don't see the outrage at them printing an obituary for her or The sun giving extensive coverage to her murder.
More than that - where's the outrage at the DUP joining in the tributes? They stand for pretty much everything Lyra was opposed to: www.indy100.com/article/dup-theresa-may-tory-deal-alliance-minority-government-quotes-arlene-foster-lgbt-abortion-religion-7783241

The comparison with the Mail, the Sun and the DUP are false. 2 of them are national newspapers and the other is the major political party in NI. Of course they are going to comment. They are part of national life.

Who outside of here has even heard of WPUK? There is an air of self-agrandissment (spelling?) about their thinking they have a platform to comment.

Having looked at the tweets, is it part of the trouble is that WPUK didn’t mention in their tweet that Lyra was a staunch trans ally?

The standard form for tributes to adversaries includes a respectful acknowledgement that their views or values were opposed to yours

Agreed.

How bizzare. Commenting on platforms such as Facebook and Twitter, which exist entirely as a platform for comment is considered self aggrandisim.

promoting oneself as being powerful or important

So if i popped on twitter (not gonna happen) and said how sorry i was that she had been murdered, what a dreadful loss she is to the world and that my thoughts were with her family...that would be self aggrandising?

I do see whoops point

Possibly with slightly different wording there may not have been so much of an issue

Personally i don't believe this, i dont think there was any phasing WPUK could use which would have made a difference

Rufus I agree, nothing would have prevented the criticism. And as her public work did not include campaigning for legal sex self-id or for abolishing the single-sex exemptions, I posit that WPUK reasonably did not know her position on these issues enough to include a disclaimer.

And I absolutely reject the notion that the only people or organisations allowed to show their respect to someone who has been senselessly murdered in sectarian violence are those who are famous or part of the establishment.

I wonder what the beef is some people here have with WPUK, but I guess we're back to the truly idiotic because counterproductive practice of purity policing or whatever other test WPUK fails to pass.

One of the most prolific and angry complainers who I won't name last year posted angry photos of them using a Fair play for women leaflet to pick up dog excrement in their garden.

You would hope they did more than a cursory glance at her work before choosing her as an icon of the day though, so it seems pretty unlikely they really didn’t know she was a trans ally.

Like, the first descriptions on news reports about her was that she was a journalist and an LGBTQI activist, so pretty hard to miss.

whoop

So a trans ally can't be a WPUK icon of the day

So if i popped on twitter (not gonna happen) and said how sorry i was that she had been murdered, what a dreadful loss she is to the world and that my thoughts were with her family...that would be self aggrandising?

Not if you did it in your own name but if you did it in the name of an organisation hardly any one has heard of and which it is now known to be an organisation the deceased opposed- yes, in my view it is. It is making it about this organisation.

So a trans ally can't be a WPUK icon of the day

Oh come on- that's just being disingenuous. Lyra would never have been promoted by WPUK as a trans ally and icon of the day if she were alive.

I don't honestly see why WPUK had to say anything but if they did a personal comment from an individual would have been more appropriate rather than flying the organisation's name.

And I absolutely reject the notion that the only people or organisations allowed to show their respect to someone who has been senselessly murdered in sectarian violence are those who are famous or part of the establishment

I wonder what the beef is some people here have with WPUK, but I guess we're back to the truly idiotic because counterproductive practice of purity policing or whatever other test WPUK fails to pass

Well the more I think about this the more I think this was WPUK , an obscure and to many within the LGBTQ community, controversial organisation, commenting where it wasn't expected or necessary.

Oh come on- that's just being disingenuous

No its not

Its a simple question

As it happens i agree that she most likely wouldn't have been icon of the day if she hadnt have died...and if whoops had said that I certainly wouldn't have asked the question

But if she hadnt died i doubt many of us would have heard about what an inspiring woman she was

Well the more I think about this the more I think this was WPUK , an obscure and to many within the LGBTQ community, controversial organisation,

What on earth is controversial about WPUK? It is a collective of women who advocate for women's rights to be maintained and where necessary reinforced.

There is nothing whatsoever controversial about that.

rufus, what I mean is, since she was their icon of the day, it’s not really credible that they knew so little of her as to miss the trans ally bit. Responding to posters saying maybe they’d missed it and that’s why it wasn’t acknowledged.

I’ve got no problem with her being their icon of the day, but like I said earlier, the usual form is to acknowledge the differing viewpoints and stance when tributes go out for political or ideological adversaries.

Thank you for clarifying whoop

And yes i agree, i think maybe they didnt care that she was a trans ally. Lots of people would argue that they are

But i see your point regarding acknowledging different view points amd i think that's probably what ive seen in the media in the past, i dont do twitter so ive no idea of the etiquette there