WPUK and Lyra McKee

[Tartie]

Namechanger...

WPUK are currently under attack for posting about Lyra McKee as part of their "Women Icons" series. Lyra is the journalist that was shot dead a few days ago. She was gay and supported trans rights. Thus, a lot of people are angry with WPUK for doing this.

I must admit, I'm on the fence here. I think it's nice for WPUK to post a tribute, but I also think that it may be too soon...

@AlwaysComingHome

If you look at the Twitter thread, there's a few people claiming to have been friends with her. I don't know if they are or aren't, but it's a pretty sick thing for them to lie about.

Have her ‘loved ones’ actually commented or are you appropriating their grief?

We have no reason to think it is OP appropriating anyone's grief. That's the sort of accusation wokus dei like to chuck at people. Several people on the WPUK thread have claimed to be 'friends' upset by WPUK 'appropriation' of her something or other (honestly I can't fathom what their fucking point is).

I think OP is well motivated in wanting WPUK to be sensitive to grief. The problem is that when a tribute to someone is suddenly 'problematic', and we give in to the wailing and name calling, where does it end?

It's like when people call tiny issues of tact and reasonable disagreements 'racist', 'sexist' or 'bigoted'- they devalue those terms. It makes nuance and reasonable debate impossible.

Since the OP has changed their name specifically to start this thread I have no prior posts on which to judge if their concern is genuine or if this is another ‘Why does glinner only collaborate with white men’ attempt to smear somebody with genuine concerns.

As far as I can see her death had sod all to do with her stance on transgender issues. This isn’t Nigel Farage rending his clothes at the death of Jo Cox. Why aren’t you going after Saoradh?

I too am very pro choice OP. If I was murdered and an anti abortion charity posted a tribute to me, picking out some common values, I have no doubt at all my family would appreciate it.

Just as David Cameron presumably appreciated the sympathy shown by Gordon Brown when he suffered the tragedy of losing a child.

There is such a thing as common decency, outside the TRA bubble at least.

Since the OP has changed their name specifically to start this thread I have no prior posts on which to judge if their concern is genuine

Sorry. I missed that it was one of those. I still don't think it does us any good to assume mendacity (though I'm not naive enough to imagine that most aren't) but I share the frustration at the frequency of stuff like this.

I actually think it's an interesting discussion. On the face of it the call to 'just be nice' because someone is upset is so tempting, especially in situations like this. It's why the slow coiling python of the wokestasi has managed to put so much of normal political discussion off limits because it's 'offensive' to someone somewhere. It's also given unwarranted credibility to alt-right types, who use the excuse of standing up to the wokestasi to mask genuine bigotry.

For example, I am very pro-abortion. So if I died and an anti-abortion charity posted a tribute to me soon after, I think my loved ones would see that as an insult.

But why do you think that? I mean, I personally would not take issue with that if it happened to me or to someone I loved as it is a gesture of respect and grief across a separation of beliefs. It is very common in political spheres (of which Lyra was a part of in her advocacy and journalism) for adversaries to post a tribute to a deceased adversary (and soon after their death, not months or years later), especially in circumstances such as this. Look at all the statements from politicians that opposed or feuded with George W Bush after Bush’s death that honoured his legacy and patriotism and so on.

One can be an adversary and still respect the person, their rights and freedom to advocate for what they believed, and their role in encouraging discourse and so on - all things Lyra did.

I assure you. I am a genuine gender critical feminist. I name changed as I sensed that I'd be swimming against the tide in this thread, Which I am. I think a lot of posters here do remember the names of posters that are controversial, which would have destroyed my reputation here.

I think it's fine that WPUK posted a tribute, but it is too soon. They should have waited a week or two. It seems obvious that their tribute would have attracted this reaction, so they should have waited. Penis News have already written a nasty article about this. It's an easy attack for the TRAs.

I really dont think youve said anything controversial

People just dont agree with you

And a minute ago you said months, now its weeks

Possibly hours ago, cant be bothered to check

And actually maybe i shouldve name changed

Cos tart may well be someone i really like as a poster and now shes thinking...aaahh that rufus, what a twat not agreeing with me

I may be overthinking this

Or underthinking

A friend of Lyra has posted 'thank you for honouring my friend' and another friend of Lyra has posted condemning WPUK for doing so. Different friends won't always agree with each other.

Also several hundred other people from around the world have posted.

It's an easy attack for the TRAs
So? They don't get to dictate what other people say.

I don't think it's obvious that it would attract this response. Most adults can and do respectfully put differences aside to pay tribute when people die. I think it's disrespectful that certain people are trying to reduce Lyra to a single-issue journalist. She was so much more than that.
If I died, that kind of appropriation of what I stood for, would anger me. I wouldn't be annoyed at all at people showing they could put hands across the divide to acknowledge my death.

Waiting a week or two would be worse than not commenting at all. Do you honestly think the people sniping right now wouldn’t use the delay as ‘evidence’ of insincerity?

If somebody doesn’t accept your condolences that’s on them. WPUK did what decent people do.

Evening Tartie

I do understand people wanting to be sensitive to the wishes of family and friends but isn't it entirely possible WPUK saw the letter she wrote to her 14 year old self and the interview with her partner and just assumed that she was primarily concerned with the L and not the T? She was initially described as an LGBT activist but not a 'trans ally' so they may have assumed there would be no controversy in posting a tribute.

One of the few times MPs showed themselves in a good light was the 'more in common' hashtag after the murder of Jo Cox. (Glossing over subsequent revelations about her husband sexually harassing women at work.

Another example was the cross party tributes to Tessa Jowell (and the other examples given by other posters earlier).

As other posters have said, we expect political opponents to acknowledge a person's achievements when they die.

I just think WPUK tweeted the moving article not expecting controversy. They could hardly respond with 'well in that case we will delete the tweet.' That would have been far more insensitive in my opinion.

Rather than 'glossing over' I should have said something like 'separating this from subsequent revelations' or something similar. On my phone and a bit too fiddly for previewing long post.

I think appropriating her as one of their icons was ill-judged. They are unlikely to have done that when she was alive I'm guessing that had they done so she would have asked them to retract it.

They could have posted a simple statement that whilst they are aware she did not agree with WPUK, WPUK is saddened at her death, etc etc a la Milliband on Thatcher. Although I'm not 100% convinced they needed to say anything.

Women talking about other women without permission of men, well I never.

whilst they are aware she did not agree with WPUK

But as a PP said were they aware. I had reads lots about how she was a talented journalist, and that she had a written a very moving letter to her teenage self about being a lesbian.

I was not aware that she was a TRA until the same image was repeatedly posted under the WPUK tweet. And after that if WPUK had removed the post they would have been slammed for that too.

I think this is a really difficult one. A friend is a staunch Labour supporter. If they were murdered and the BNP paid tribute to them a lot of people would be disgusted, me included. That's an extreme group, certainly controversial (which I don't consider WPUK to be) but some would hate a Tory tribute too.

I think a tribute is a nice thing to do. If I were WPUK and a family member contacted me I would be willing to take it down. Short of that I would post something saying "We don't agree on everything but she was an inspiring woman who should still be here. Remember her".

I should add, I think WPUK's heart is in the right place here. I don't think there was any malice in their tribute, and I hope that the TRAs see that.

IME there is no greater tribute than that of the opposite side. I’m in Sunderland and when Bradley Lowery died, the support of the Geordies was touching and very welcome. Similarly, after the MH17 tragedy, Mackems stood up and raised funds to help the Geordie victims. Our rivalry is intense and local Derbies are a time to avoid the town that is hosting. The fact that both teams were willing to lay aside rivalry for the bigger picture was truly moving. Even now, I’m moved to tears over it, and I’m just a local lass with no connection.

WPUK have done the same, and should be respected for that, it reflects very badly on TRAs that the gesture has been refused. Tragedies like this are times of unification, not vilification.

I really can't believe that anyone who was really one of her loved ones could possibly object to the tribute- has anyone heard from (eg) her partner, parents, siblings, grandparents....they can't all be rabid TRAs can they. Even if they realised the tribute came from a group that opposed some of her beliefs (we don't actually know this do we?)...wouldn't a grieving parent be more likely to think 'ah, she really was respected, even by people who disagreed with her'...and that might just bring some comfort.

But as a PP said were they aware. I had reads lots about how she was a talented journalist, and that she had a written a very moving letter to her teenage self about being a lesbian

I think they might have taken an educated guess on it.