The Vagina Museum - 'let's destigmatize the word!!' (while avoiding the word 'woman')

[T1meForDebate]

This makes me so angry.

The Vagina Museum, an actual go-to place celebrating, educating, illustrating etc.

Great so far.

But.

They can barely bring themselves to use the words 'women and girls'.

People.

It's more inclusive.

Aaaarrrrrrrrggggg

www.thisisinsider.com/worlds-first-vagina-museum-opens-this-fall-uk-2019-3?utm_content=buffer28c71&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-style&fbclid=IwAR3jgfO9xTRli7BmxIbf01g0dED7jP2RFZnJDhxHmiMSJAVplHoXoZhiVpo

A vagina museum sounds like a pretty bad idea anyway. Doesn't surprise me they've fallen down the woman-hating rabbit hole.

There's a penis museum, they don't have this coy problem with language.

PMSL at "Honorary Members". I don't care if it's deliberate, it's perfect.

I might visit a veg museum.

The vast majority of women (see: third world countries) are defined by the femaleness of their bodies - they cannot identify out of it.

Making “small changes” to language to be more “inclusive” is erasing. It does hurt people.

The museum does not see that of course - in their woke, white, middle class bubble, so very pleased with how progressive they are!

Don’t trans men call it their “front hole?” Why not have a section for front holes and let vaginas be female.

It isn't just about trans women, but also trans men - i.e. people who were born female but feel more comfortable identifying and being seen as male - who present as male but may have vaginas. They, and non binary people with vaginas, is who this museum would be trying to include by not gendering vaginas as these people do not feel they are female but still have that anatomy.

I am not trans or non binary so I don't know what it is like to not feel comfortable identifying as the sex you were born as, but I see no reason why we shouldn't try to make people feel more comfortable by using more inclusive language. It is not about excluding women, it is about including other people with vaginas.

but also trans men - i.e. people who were born female but feel more comfortable identifying and being seen as male I suspect that explanation was wholy unecessary on this board!

It is not about excluding women, it is about including other people with vaginas. And that is the point... who are those other 'people'? Transmen are women, just as transwomen are men.

Any man with a vagina is either wearing a prosthetic (can you get them?) or has had a 'neovagina' made from his penis. It isn't a vagina!

Many posters here have gone through 'accepting and being nice' wondering why anyone would make a fuss about allowing some people feel more comfortable. But things happen along the way and many of us have realised that pleasing that one transomwn makes many women feel uncomfortable. And we wonder why we have to feel uncomfortable to please that man?

And then there is the language... the slow erasure of 'woman' as we know it. For example 'gendering vaginas' what does that mean? Vagina is a sexual characteristic... a biological reality, not a societal more!

Think of any other oppressed group. Imagine telling them they have to forgo having a name to describe themselves from now on. Tell them it really doesn't affect them.

Great point that crystallises very well how I feel about this pathetic, cowardly avoidance of the use of the word woman.

I really don't think it helps people with gender dysphoria to be complicit in their denial of reality.

Sophistry but trans men don’t call it their vagina.. it can trigger their dysphoria. Usually they say front hole... whereas women say Vagina.

So instead of de-sexing “vagina” which distracts from the goal of celebrating them... why not recognise vaginas as female and front holes as male? I feel the approach taken is insensitive both to women and trans men.

This museum erases women like me. It is ok, not everything is about me - for a museum to centre the trans experience (even inadvertently, as in this case) is not a bad thing.

But please (museums et al) don’t ignore and erase women, then expect us to support you with our money and patronage.

They, and non binary people with vaginas, is who this museum would be trying to include by not gendering vaginas as these people do not feel they are female but still have that anatomy.

No, it isn't. You're very naive. This is always done to break the connection between "woman" and the female body. For the benefit of MTF trans people, mostly. It's extremely rare that it happens the other way round, and "trans men" tell men the male body can't be linked with being a man.

I’m baffled as to why any transman likely to be triggered by the notion that women have vaginas would want to visit a vagina museum.

This.

We don't have to blatantly lie because of a rare dysphoria.

It's a bloody outrage stupid curating.

Is there some reason we have to have a vagina museum, and detach it from women?

Jesus h Christ what next!!

How can anyone support this utter twaddle and tripe.

No problem.with the penis museum, we're allowed to say men, surprise surprise, not.

Is there some reason we have to have a vagina museum, and detach it from women?

Yes. To undermine the idea that biological sex is a meaningful category. Whatever that costs women, because this is not a female centred agenda.

Indeed

When the fundraiser first started I did a painfully long response to the museum explaining how it erased women. I was utterly ignored. My efforts (and those of many other women) were completely wasted.

I’ve found I get more listened to when I argue from trans-related perspectives (as per my last comment), but I’m starting to wonder if that is the underlying goal. To make people to change how they express themselves by blanking them? It all feels a bit sinister.

They, and non binary people with vaginas, is who this museum would be trying to include by not gendering vaginas as these people do not feel they are female but still have that anatomy.

There’s nothing ‘gendered’ about vaginas. Vaginas are part of the anatomy of the female sex, just like XX chromosomes, and members of the female sex are called women and girls.

I went to a Valentine’s Day fundraiser for the Vagina Museum a year or two ago, a bit sceptical but feeling hopeful that it might genuinely be about reclaiming our language & our bodies.

While a lot of it was entertaining & informative, there were increasing mentions of ‘vagina-havers’ and ‘people who menstruate’ and then at the end the announcement that their next event would feature a transwoman signing copies of their latest book.

So I won’t be donating either. Or visiting. Somehow I doubt the penis museum would behave in the same way - or be expected to.

I was at that fundraiser too, Empress. It was great, there was so much excitement in a room of women, coming together to create something about female bodies.

And then the gender neutral language started - and I groaned. Actually groaned, out loud.

FFS. It is appropriate to have something about trans issues in a vagina museum - of course. But, there is little point in curating stuff in an unscientific manner. I looked at the board of the vagina museum, I'm surprised none of them have understood the difference between sex and gender - and without that, the whole exercise is pointless.

That's why I haven't donated. it won't destigmatise anything, if you can't even say "woman" then it's adding to the bloody problems that female people have imposed on their lives by having a vagina.

It’s just a pack of shite. All women know what they have. Vaginas

They can fuck off with their word wankery

Am so fed up with all the idiots being led like cattle into this utter utter shite

Am frothing today 😮😮😂😂

How about we start calling ourselves 'shitters', we're all that, animals are all that, simply no definitions no boundaries, all very scientific, but nondescript and totally useless.

Don't take away from women

I feel the vaginas museum needs action against it and its erosive effect on women.

I will not be visiting.

I will not recommend it to any actual women or girls to experience erasure.

"It is not about excluding women, it is about including other people with vaginas."

But why does everything have to include everyone, @Sophistry? What is wrong with having some places/groups that celebrate biological females - their biological reality, their history, their oppression, their triumphs, their needs?

I know that there are plenty of groups and places from which I am excluded - but I have enough sense to know that I CANNOT belong to every group - so I don't stamp my little feet and have a tantrum, insisting that I MUST be included everywhere.

Someone, on another trans thread on here, said something I think was very wise - there is nothing wrong with trans men and trans women wanting a seat at the table - but NOT women's seat at the table - because women, biological women, have fought too long and too hard for that one seat at the table.

And, further to that, SDTG - WHY do they need to be included in everything?

Most men are nice and able to behave themselves - but, I don't know a single man who questions why he's not allowed in the female loos. They understand that because some men are dangerous areseholes, all men are excluded.

Transwomen don't get that. They don't acknowledge that some trans women (probably men pretending to be trans so they can get in our single sex spaces for sinister reasons) don't behave well. They pretend that everyone is lovely. the crime stats say otherwise.

A vagina may or may not have a gender, but it sure as hell has a SEX. People of the female sex have vaginas - people of the male SEX do NOT have vaginas.

It's absolutely ridiculous - on the one hand celebrating a vagina and on the other can't even bear to say the word woman

Not donated either. All my spare cash is going to Vancouver.

Exactly, @vivariumvivariumsvivaria - they don't need to be included in everything - none of us do!

And I would suspect that they are more than happy to pick and choose which aspects of womanhood they MUST be included in, and which they choose to bypass - I doubt many trans women will be fighting to be included on our side of the pay differential, for example, or having it expected that they pick up the 'wife work' or caring responsibilities alongside their careers.

There'll be a video wall with Jess Bradley's "My impossible vagina" on a constant loop