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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Caroline Farrow Support Thread

999 replies

GeordieGenes · 01/04/2019 23:05

Caroline, I am honestly almost in tears looking at your Twitter feed tonight. Sad

Her kids have been doxxed by the good doctor.

She is continuing to receive harassment from TRAs. Someone has just sent a pizza to her house.

We all need to get behind her. They think she's a weaker target because of her Catholic views, I'm sure. Let's get on Twitter and report everyone that is sending her abuse.

OP posts:
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GeordieGenes · 03/04/2019 00:22

Op here.

I can't actually believe how batshit crazy this thread went! Can we really not even have a support thread without being gaslit?

Also, Steph, I'm not sure what your accusing me of? I've only posted on this thread 3 times? I started this thread to support Carrow, not slag anyone off.

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 03/04/2019 00:24

Many posters name change and let you know why. You, for instance did that.
It's not a big deal, but I thought I'd ask, on the off chance

You asked once and then posted another post still hinting Lime is EarlyWalker.

Some posters announce it the vast majority don't. And do you know why I do ? Because the first time I changed a self- appointed moderator called me out on it.

I don't know what Lime has said to annoy you all but it is none of yours or FloralBunting's (or whoever posted Early Walker and struck it out's) business. If you think Lime is a sock puppet or a previously banned poster- report it.

Erythronium · 03/04/2019 00:29

Just joining the thread to add my support for you Caroline. I'm very sorry to hear about the abuse and harassment you've received from these people simply for speaking the truth. Flowers

FloralBunting · 03/04/2019 00:29

I did the strike through, Lass. And yes, I was sceptical. Not enough to think it worth more than a passing comment while trying to get Lime to actually stop derailing the thread. Now, do try to stop issuing orders about others being thread police. It's a touch too ironic.

Datun · 03/04/2019 00:31

Nope. I didn't hint at anything and don't think they're a sock puppet or PBP. Nothing anywhere near as aggressive as you're imagining. It's just as I said.

LassOfFyvie · 03/04/2019 00:36

Now, do try to stop issuing orders about others being thread police. It's a touch too ironic

What hypocrisy. Name changing is permitted. You and Datun decided to take it upon yourselves to call out whether a poster had name changed.


ToeToToe · 03/04/2019 00:38

Erythronium - Excellent - welcome to all the lurkers adding their support.

Datun · 03/04/2019 00:39

I asked lime if they were early Walker. From what I remember of early they'd not care about people knowing a name change if asked.

You are abscribing intent and aggression where there is enquiry.

ToeToToe · 03/04/2019 00:40

I can't actually believe how batshit crazy this thread went! Can we really not even have a support thread without being gaslit?

Clearly not! It's a real-time demonstration of gaslighting.

LimeKiwi · 03/04/2019 00:43

Not sure exactly what I've done on this thread myself, all I know is I've agreed in some points but it's not enough.
I've been on here as an active poster since about 2012 - as in Mumsnet boards in general - (not sure of exact year!) FWR board this is where I learnt about trans issues from only after reading past year or so. Reading both sides and not just one and making my mind up.

nicenewdusters · 03/04/2019 00:45

I guess the existential agony for Steph is that, despite the claim to be one of us, ie a woman, when all the shouting on Twitter and MN stops the reality in the silence is deafening.

Retyping a document, undergoing a surgical procedure, costume - none of that gives you what women on this thread have. Steph's posts reeked of misogyny, entitlement, anger - that can't be undone by use of a pronoun, whether offered freely out of courtesy or mandated by law.

Huge respect to you Caroline. At the end of the day the truth is all any of us has, and speaking yours is coming at an enormous cost. But you're not lying to yourself, which as we all know is the worst person you can lie to.

LimeKiwi · 03/04/2019 00:45

That was to @LassOfFyvie, cross posted sorry - didn't originally tag as know how it's shouted down in this board usually so didn;t say who I was referring to but cross posted.

CharlieParley · 03/04/2019 00:45

Caro Flowers from this militant atheist. We could, I'm sure, have a few robust debates about religion and assorted, connected issues, if either of us was so inclined.

Where there is no disagreement between us is on the issue of defending the existing sex-based rights of women and girls, on the immutability of sex and on whether it is ever acceptable to seek to intimidate a woman into silence or to threaten her children and family - whether that is directly or indirectly, explicitly and detailed or by oh-so-clever implication.

In case this needs spelled out: it is never acceptable to bully, harass, threaten or intimidate anyone for their views, no matter what those are.

It is especially heinous to do this to women because of the staggering amount of empirical evidence of such threats by males escalating to actual male violence. And truly evil to involve her children.

It is blatantly obvious that activists consider the children in this case to be fair game btw, because their mother openly criticised the actions of an activist in relation to her own child.

This reaction is of course unjustified for two reasons - the public criticism referenced a specific action which was arguably illegal (it certainly is considered to be in similar circumstances under UK law). A journalist calling this into question is doing what her professional instincts and ethics tell her to do. And the child involved is not far off 30 today.

I am heartened to see the outporing of support for Caro, especially also from lurkers briefly breaking cover. Whatever our differences, what is being done to Caro is not acceptable and we are making that clear.

On the issue of those seeking to derail this support thread: this has been an object lesson in male dominance displays as well as the unique ignorance only males have of the reality of the lives of female people.

No woman would ever fail to understand that for our assessment of the threat a male poses, a documented, violent past is of enduring, life-long significance.

A history that includes a conviction for violence (not to mention additional court appearances, including for further violent behaviour, a sexual offence and dishonesty) immediately raises my threat level to defcon 4 for instance, regardless of whether the legal system considers any convictions to be spent. (A personal history with such a male would raise this to defcon 5.)

As it is, level 4 means absolute mistrust and therefore hyper vigilance. And I have to admit, that the obsessive, repeated intrusion into this thread is nudging my defcon level upwards. It's truly concerning behaviour.

On a certain poster, whether name-changed or not: if one is reminded that this is a support thread and one has already conceded that one does not agree with what the recipient of said support is having to endure, it is remarkable, that at the point of my writing this, there has been no actual support. And this despite the fact that one was repeatedly asked to either do so or respectfully leave the thread. I think that speaks volumes.

Datun · 03/04/2019 00:49

I guess the existential agony for Steph is that, despite the claim to be one of us, ie a woman, when all the shouting on Twitter and MN stops the reality in the silence is deafening.

After seeing what Hayden had to say, I genuinely don't think they want to be a woman at all.

They realise that whatever it is they think they are identifying as, it's not demonstrated anywhere on the biggest gathering of women on the planet.

Hayden doesn't like women. At all.

dragoning · 03/04/2019 00:51

Lime, seriously!! Start another thread. This is a support thread for Caro. You absolutely don't have to support her. But please explore your non contributions of support on another thread and many of us will join you there.

dragoning · 03/04/2019 00:54

'...join you there to debate' that should have said in my PP.

Caro I'm glad to hear that you had such a productive meeting this evening. Very glad to hear that you have found a feasible way forward in the short term. THANK YOU for standing up for women and girls.

Datun · 03/04/2019 00:54

No woman would ever fail to understand that for our assessment of the threat a male poses, a documented, violent past is of enduring, life-long significance.

Massively increased by any attempt to minimise or ignore it.

nicenewdusters · 03/04/2019 00:57

Exactly Datun . That's how I feel so often when I see and hear these transwomen talk. They seem to actively dislike women. All this talk of being born in the wrong body, feeling like a woman, thinking like a woman. Posie once talked about this "pornified version" of a woman, and I believe that for many men this is what it is.

nicenewdusters · 03/04/2019 01:02

If I identified as something "other" and wanted to be part of that group, I imagine I would be watchful, respectful and careful about my integration. People like Steph don't just bang loudly on the door demanding entrance, but insist we all leave the building so that they can redecorate and give it a new name.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/04/2019 01:02

ThanksCaro.
Pretty impressed, that at the end of what must have been a trying day (to put it mildly), she took the time to post on another thread (where her beliefs are probably in the minority on FWR) calmly and ending with the importance of being thoughtful and pro-woman.

Datun · 03/04/2019 01:04

Great analogy Dusters!

And I'm sure the women on here both posting and lurking have found that despite the enlightenment, it is nonetheless distressing to witness.

Someone calculatedly remaining within guidelines whilst displaying threatening and intimidating behaviour is not pleasant to watch. It's too deliberate. To purposeful.

I can't really imagine what it is like to be the subject of it.

So thank you OP for starting this thread. I hope it gives Caroline comfort.

LimeKiwi · 03/04/2019 01:06

They seem to actively dislike women. All this talk of being born in the wrong body, feeling like a woman, thinking like a woman.

What, all of them? I'm not one, but why is anyone with a mind that is woman/female dismissed?
I'm not in their shoes. I can't profess to imagine what it is like to be. All I know is I have a sense of woman too. (No I'm not having a go at defining before anyone asks lol as that's never gone down well)

Datun · 03/04/2019 01:10

As it is, level 4 means absolute mistrust and therefore hyper vigilance. And I have to admit, that the obsessive, repeated intrusion into this thread is nudging my defcon level upwards. It's truly concerning behaviour.

That is a very articulate way of describing what we could all see.

The Duluth wheel, Darvo, the term gaslighting. All terms that have become familiar to many via mumsnet.

No wonder they want to shut it down.

ToeToToe · 03/04/2019 01:15

but why is anyone with a mind that is woman/female dismissed?

Because there is no evidence of a "female mind" - that sexist shit should have gone out with the Ark, and has been used to keep women in 'the place' for centuries.

How do males know what a 'female mind' feels like? Gender stereotypes - that's how.

Woman is a biological class of people born female. XX chromosomes.

ToeToToe · 03/04/2019 01:15

'in their place'

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