Let Toys Be Toys has fallen

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'Jamie’ by @ollypike: “There certainly aren't many books for younger children about transgender identities & this one is told very gently & sensitively” For a range of children’s books with transgender themes see...
https://twitter.com/lettoysbetoys/status/1112454995000131584?s=21

Thanks for taking one for the team Ihaventgottimeforthis

Would they, I wonder, ever, in a month of Sundays, have Jamie falling in love with a boy?

And then nail their colours to their nonsense mast and claim Jamie was gay?

Datun is being the voice of utter reason as usual. Why is it such an uphill struggle? What is wrong with some people’s comprehension?

I feel really sad if they have started embracing stereotypes now

What about the girls in your school starting to realise they are lesbian, and therefore exclusively attracted to other humans with female biology? Are you going to further the doctrine that they must 'get over' and be 'educated' out of their homosexuality so that they don't upset males who want to be treated as girls?

This is also known as conversion therapy- however the boy who believes he is a girl should be unconditionally affirmed and doesn't need to get over or be educated out of anything. Even the appalling belief that girls have no right to a sex life that excludes males and girls who insist on making that choice in defiance of the doctrine should be shunned, raped or lynched? (See the Pride Parade for placards.)

Oh but wait! There's a way out of it for the girl! If she'll just 'come out' as a boy then all the abuse stops dead! She can now date whoever she likes with whatever sexuality she likes and will be applauded for doing so. The price for this escape however will be her health and her body.

Adults supporting this and deluding themselves about the realities of it are culpable for what is happening and will happen in the future to these girls. For Gods sake look at some detransitioning stories and the numbers of girls trying desperately to identify out of the oppression you're shoring up.

To be honest Datun it's nearly as bad as the original cinderella.

For Gods sake look at some detransitioning stories and the numbers of girls trying desperately to identify out of the oppression you're shoring up.

Not compound it by finding a way they can bind their breasts more effectively and without injury.

And yes TheGrey1houndSpeaks those with a vested interest I can understand, when they misunderstand or buy the nonsense.

But those who are in a position of responsibility who can see, with their own eyes, the negative effects, but just haven't thought it through, is becoming increasingly incomprehensible to me.

And I'm not really sure which of those two camps that particular poster falls into, to be honest.

Acknowledging what the problem is, whilst accusing women of being old-fashioned, smacks little too much of TRA.

I feel for any poor girl at school these days who is, well a tomboy. I can imagine some newly minted stonewall/mermaids trained idiot gleefully waving this nonsense at the poor child and egging them on to embrace their maleness.

Remember in the old days when schools couldn’t ‘promote’ homosexuality? They seem to positively downright push trans these days.

And you know what? It’s none of the schools fucking business. Kids are there to learn to read and write not be brainwashed by the newest social contagion.

Bathtime1: "s1naidsucks- you sound hysterical."

No, I think s1naidsucks sounds angry. And i understand their anger. This was one campaign that stood up for breaking down gender stereotypes.

God knows I wish we could “abolish gender” and everyone could be free to live, dress and express themselves however they want but that is a huge social change that I don’t think can be solved on Mumsnet.

So do we all just give up and not fight the fight for 'everyone could be free to live, dress and express themselves however they want'? And medicalise the condition of 'expressing themselves' into 'you're the other sex' whenever it occurs?

Oh, and whilst we're on stereotypes, often the word 'hysterical' tends to be plonked as a label on a woman who is angry, and showing it, and often ever attached to a man in the context of 'hysterically funny'.

Yet we have the transgender movement to thank for normalising the conversation about gender and gender expression

When I see stuff like this I wonder whether the person is very young and has no knowledge of what was going on in the 20th century. Hippies? Glam rock? David Bowie? Rude girls? New Romantics? Boy George?

What we have to thank the transgender movement for is that whereas in previous decades gender bending men were allowed to express themselves as "feminine" men and gender bending women were allowed to express themselves as "masculine" women, these days gender bending means that someone is really the opposite sex in some mysterious way and they are encouraged to "change gender" putting themselves on a medical treatment regime for the rest of their lives. Great. Just bloody great.

I can't understand the juxtaposition of their pinned tweet of the vicous circle of gendered toys and the promoting of this book.

At a societal level:

• 'social pressure to follow the norm increases'
• fewer people break gender norms

and...'Let Toys Be Toys'.

There's not even a need to believe that body dysphoria isn't a thing to still recognise that this spirallng cycle traps children in this circle and the only way to step off is increasingly calling 'trans'.

Yet we have the transgender movement to thank for normalising the conversation about gender and gender expression

When I see stuff like this I wonder whether the person is very young and has no knowledge of what was going on in the 20th century. Hippies? Glam rock? David Bowie? Rude girls? New Romantics? Boy George?

What we have to thank the transgender movement for is that whereas in previous decades gender bending men were allowed to express themselves as "feminine" men and gender bending women were allowed to express themselves as "masculine" women, these days gender bending means that someone is really the opposite sex in some mysterious way and they are encouraged to "change gender" putting themselves on a medical treatment regime for the rest of their lives. Great. Just bloody great.

Well twitterland is putting them right (mostly).

Yet we have the transgender movement to thank for normalising the conversation about gender and gender expression

This statement is also a brain-fryer.

What do you mean Let Toys be Toys?

Why on earth does your campaign exist? Unless you were trying to disrupt the conversation about gender and gender expression because you'd seen a concerning and increasing push to lock it together with a child's sex over the last decade, through blue/pink and 'this is for boys', 'this is for girls' toys marketing.

You've been hoodwinked. The ideology you're championing in that tweet flies directly in the face of what you appeared to be have been campaigning for. Unless you believe sex = gender expression.

Until today, I would have thought I'd have been thanking you in fighting to normalise a conversation about the separation of sex from the marketing and assigning of pink-blue toys and connotations of sex-specific role toys to girls and boys.

Now, I'm not so sure!

Honestly I am so depressed by this betrayal by LTBT - it's a betrayal of all of us who have followed and supported them for years, as well as of themselves and their founding principles. You canot coherently or logically promote a book like that or any of this trans kids ideology and break down gender stereotyping in the way that they have always sought to do to date. Gutted by this doesn't begin to cover it.

But there are hormonal differences between men and women and sometimes this can explain why some people feel more comfortable expressing themselves as a certain gender.

@Bathtime17 Could you provide a link to explain this please.

People do certainly have disorders of sexual development which can affect hormone levels- it's surprisingly common. I've seen estimates that increased testosterone in women (which generally has few negative effects, so gets missed) might be as high as 1% of the population.

I've never seen any research which suggests any link with Gender dysphoria, so would be interested to read.

Just waving to say this wasn't a plop-and-run - just that Datun has covered everything I had to say on this.

But there are hormonal differences between men and women and sometimes this can explain why some people feel more comfortable expressing themselves as a certain gender.

This is a load of tripe. Anyone writing this has no understanding, even at a basic level, of the endocrine system. It’s actually a travesty a teacher wrote this.

As a teacher I have seen many children struggle with their gender identity

That's a crock.

Times are not changing. Girls can’t turn into boys
Boys can’t turn into girls

It’s really that simple

But there are hormonal differences between men and women and sometimes this can explain why some people feel more comfortable expressing themselves as a certain gender.

I really hope you aren't a teacher

s1naidsucks- you sound hysterical. As if I’d respect the opinion of someone who uses such a sexist term. Maybe you should spend less time ‘supporting’ confused children into following stereotypes and more time educating yourself. I’ve obviously hit a nerve.

Yy, nauticant and so many others...

‘Struggling with their gender identity’ means ‘does not behave according to societies stereotypes of how girls and boys should behave’. But why should only girls play with Barbies and dress in fairy costumes and only boys play with toy cars and dress as Batman? These are stereotypes thrust on children from birth and there is no reason for children to conform to them if they don’t want to. A girl who likes to play with train sets (like I did) or a boy who likes Barbie are not ‘struggling with their gender identity’ but are simply being kids enjoying the full range of activities open to them free of restrictive gender stereotypes. They should be left to get on with it without comment not set on a path of life long medication, mutilating surgery and sterility.

Let Toys Be Toys was born here on the FWR board, and it is one of the things I am most proud to have been involved with in my life. I am one of several co-founders, but haven't been involved in a while. It is run by shifting group of volunteers as a grassroots campaign (not a company).

I hope it hasn't 'fallen' yet.

LTBT is a very focused single issue campaign. When we started it the idea of transing children really wasn't on our radar, but there is a natural fit between the campaign and being gender critical.

But I also know that there are people who support LTBT who believe in innate gender identity and who support the idea of affirming children's 'trans identity' at an early age.

Up to this point I think Let Toys Be Toys has done a good job of staying out of the trans debate (the question of how children with dysphoria should best be treated is one for parents and young people, doctors and medical research, not for political campaigns)

I think they should stick to fighting sex stereotypes in children's products and marketing.

I hope they recognise that it was a mistake to endorse two books by activists (any more than they should promote books for children promoting any other ideology). ... I suspect they may not have read them or realised quite how controversial it would be. They are getting ratio'ed on twitter.

I really hope they will withdraw those tweets and make a clear statement about the focus of the campaign -- it does not need to ally either with the gender critical camp or the transactivist camp it can just focus on the fact that all children have a sex, and toy manufacturers and retailers should not promote sexist stereotypes in their marketing.

Language is the biggest issue.

Gender and sex are frequently confused. Transgender and transsexual are not understood - people aren't aware of the difference as defined by the "trans" community.

The language in the original GRA is woolly and ill conceived. It's caused much confusion.

It's spread to the interpretation of the EA; gender identity is not a protected characteristic. Sex and being a transsexual are.

The "trans community" are themselves split. Self id apparently negates the need for medical treatment that many have relied on heavily. There are significant layers of gatekeeping that are important as for some people 'transitioning' is not going to solve their problems. Yet it's sold as progressive and liberating.

Queer theory has become reality for some people who are then determined to get everyone else to agree that theory is biological reality. Few actually understand real biology and conflate intersex with trans. Believe you can actually be born in the wrong body. Which is at total odds with all other body positive and anti sexist campaigns.

It's a massive mess and kids need to be kept out of it by well meaning adults who don't fully understand the nuances. Leave it to the clinicians. Allow children and toys to be free.

Typed the above earlier, well said MForstater