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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would the world have been better off if women had a more dominant role over the past 2000 years?

367 replies

Trebe · 31/03/2019 18:32

Hi, this is my first time posting on here but this question has sparked my curiosity. Would like to find out the views from the feminist stand point. Now I get the feeling this question coukd get a little uncivil, that is not my intention but a little bit of tenacity and passion would be nice to see.

The reason I see this question getting messy is simple, at some point stereotypes and generalisations are almost certainly going to come into this. In some ways I welcome that because it means we are having an honest discussion. Some stereotyping about men and women is going to be impossible to avoid as we are guessing and generalising the history of the past 2000 years. So yes men are more violent and yes women are more emotional, these in general terms, are facts. I think to even remotely answer the question generalisations, are necessary. So no offence intended when I generalise both men and women.

Obviously over the past 2 millennia men have ruled the roost, so we could attribute every good thing or every bad thing that has happened to men. The question I'm trying to ask is would we have had more atrocities if women had a more dominant role in decision making? Would we be as technologically and scientifically advanced? Would we be a more empathetic and understanding society and civilisation?

As a man I like to and would like to think men did the best they could in certain areas such as war (over 2000 years wars will happen no matter who is in charge), the advancement of science and maths, architecture, art etc. There are things men are good at (in general, I'm only saying in general once as almost everything about this is generalised), organisation, logic, maths and massive over-generalisations! Anyway these things have given us great advancements but it has also caused a lot of suffering in the process.

The logical, organisational, scientific mind is what caused atrocities such as the holocaust. The organisation and systematic nature of the concentration camps came from such thinking. It begs the question would women have done similar things if they were in charge, or at least had equal influence. The simple statement I have on it is, the extermination of certain peoples may have still happened I'm just not so sure it would have been done in such a cold blooded and efficient manner. I firmly believe that only a male would conceive of concentration camps. So on the death, destruction and famine part I'm gonna side on women doing a 'better' job than men.

To the question of technological and scientific advancements, I claim indifference to an opinion on whether we would be more advanced or not. It is a very difficult question to have a solid opinion on to be honest. It's very difficult to know as women to a certain extent (Madame Curie being the obvious exception but there are others), have been for lack of a better word, excluded from the sciences especially in the first 50 years of the 20th century when a lot of important science we use today was being discovered. Some feminists, well usually misandrists to be fair, don't like to admit that we live in a world that was created by men and that includes the good things such as the massive and rapid advancements in technology, health and science. That I do believe is helped by the way the male brain works.

When it comes to things like art, poetry, architecture, religion, psychology (especially psychology), sociology and many more of the humanities could have done with the influence of women. We would have a massive wealth of extra art, literature, architecture, poetry, music and more just by women having a stronger input over the past 2000 years. When it comes to more recent times I think womens input into psychology would have been massive, I don't think we would have gone down such extreme routes to control people like we did with the holocaust if women had their input on things like behavioural psychology.

I think war would have been (as much as possible) more humane and over much quicker. Do I think women can wage war just like any other human? Of course I do, I also believe there would have been wars, I don't believe that war would disappear if men did. I just believe women wouldn't want the carnage, the salt the ground or scorched earth policies men have adopted in the past.

Anyway I'm sort of rambling so I'll conclude. I am basically trying to engage in a discussion about women over the past 2000 years but also the past couple of hundred of years. Yes I'm sure there is absolutely loads I could add to this but I would like to hear your views on the question at hand. Feel free to generalise as much as is necessary just don't try to do it to be a dick, do it because you have a point.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

OP posts:
Potplant2 · 31/03/2019 18:43

Behold a man, etc.

GassyAss · 31/03/2019 18:47

That is a lot of words that I couldn’t be arsed to read But I think the answer is yes.

PaperFlowers4 · 31/03/2019 18:47

OP if you’re interested in what feminists think then you should read one or some or all of the hundreds of feminists texts written over the last 50 years.

Trebe · 31/03/2019 18:54

I'm interested in what you think. Whether you are feminist or not bothers me little, misandry does but feminism in its true sense makes perfect sense as long as it's equality and not equity that is trying to be attained.

And to the first poster your sexism and misandry isn't really warranted. This is a hypothetical question, if that offends you there isn't much I can do about that.

OP posts:
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 31/03/2019 18:54

Yes.

HTH

LangCleg · 31/03/2019 18:55

a little bit of tenacity and passion would be nice to see

Yeah, no, can't be arsed.

Trebe · 31/03/2019 18:57

Discussion is what advances things. I'm here for an honest and open discussion. Feel free to rip my arguments to pieces, I'm confident it won't be difficult but attacking me especially when it's for my gender advances nothing.

OP posts:
Trebe · 31/03/2019 18:59

You must get a lot of trolls on here for everyone to have this attitude about a hypothetical. I've campaigned and protested for equality if that helps you any. I'm genuinely here for a discussion with people educated on the matter.

OP posts:
MIdgebabe · 31/03/2019 19:01

Nice to have a laugh, thanks!

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 31/03/2019 19:01

The myth of the male and female brain

Yossarian22 · 31/03/2019 19:01

Blah blah blah blah.
I don’t give a monkeys about your gender but telling women they can’t be dicks makes you sound transphobic. Just sayin’ 😉

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 31/03/2019 19:02

Myth #2

IfNotNowThenWhy · 31/03/2019 19:02

I just can't imagine going on a board mainly populated by men and pontificating (with wildly inaccurate and unsubstantiated theories) and demanding they engage.
And yet men intermittently do it on here ALL THE TIME .
You have to wonder.. why? Do they not have stuff to do? Generally women have a lot of shit to take care of and wouldn't have the time to waste.
You don't care what women think OP. Or what they know. Or what the clever ones have written/researched/discovered.

So what's the point?

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 31/03/2019 19:04

Myth #3

And so on. I would post more, but I have a pink brain so it's not very organised.

howmanyleftfeet · 31/03/2019 19:05

I'm genuinely here for a discussion with people educated on the matter

You might like to work on your approach in that case. Antagonising the board with such arrogant mansplaining is not really a great start.

Trebe · 31/03/2019 19:08

The myth of the male and female brain sounds interesting, I'll find the rest of the article elsewhere but thanks for the input. However without reading the full article and with generalising, I believe that in general male brains are more logical and womens more empathetic. I have 2 degrees, one in maths and statistics and one in person centred psychotherapy. In terms of numbers its probably a 10 to one ratio in the classes I was in of more males doing maths and stats and roughly the same ratio of women to men in psychotherapy. I don't see why that is even seen as a bad thing. I'd rather someone be empathetic than tell me the statistical probabilities on a roulette table.

OP posts:
howmanyleftfeet · 31/03/2019 19:08

Women don't tend to start new threads by setting out what we think in detail first then asking for discussion.

I've only heard two men stand up to speak at Q&As at the end of feminist talks over the last year but both stood up to tell us what they thought, rather than ask a question of the panel as invited.

Pretty much all the women did ask questions.

Why do you think this is?

RuffleCrow · 31/03/2019 19:10

I think the whole concept of dominance is patriarchal.

Power doesn't have to be hierarchical.

If women had found way to have more influence over the past 2000 years, maybe. But it boils down to physical strength ultimately and we haven't yet discovered a way to balance male physical strength with the rights of women. Possibly because men are still running pretty much everything and female involvement is still tokenalistic. It's a vicious circle.

Trebe · 31/03/2019 19:12

The generalisations are intentional not to antagonize, it's why I made such a massive point of saying that.

I genuinely am here for discussion and more importantly to learn. The vitriol I've received wasn't expected and I find kinda strange really. Surely discussion, with whom it seems you think is your 'enemy' is a good thing.

OP posts:
RuffleCrow · 31/03/2019 19:14

'Women are more emotional' lmao!Hmm

One of the greatest tricks the patriarchy has ever paid off is to convince us all that anger, lust and ruthless vengeance aren't emotions.

Trebe · 31/03/2019 19:16

So what about when women are dominant? Do you believe that is all learned? I see what you are saying but I've known some women with whom dominance sits very comfortably. I think saying taking men out of the equation would solve that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, surely the hierarchy of some form would exist.

OP posts:
Trebe · 31/03/2019 19:17

Would you prefer if I said women are more in tune with their emotions?

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 31/03/2019 19:18

The example you've just given doesn't prove that men and women are fundamentally different, though. Can you think of ways in which it might be flawed?

Trebe · 31/03/2019 19:19

Which example?

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 31/03/2019 19:20

If you aren't a troll, you really are fascinatingly obtuse.

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