Lingerie and pretty things

[TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe]

I don't like these things. I think they're silly and uncomfortable and frequently not practical. However, since around the age of 19/20 I will wear them. Particularly if it means I will ger laid.

So I am wearing these things because men like the look of them. I started dressing more traditionally feminine around that age because looking like a scruffy teenage boy wasn't getting me any.

I like men dressed in typically masculine clothing but I actually think I look nice dressed that way as well. And I am drawn to it more because I feel I can wear it less now.

Women didn't invent stupid women's clothing. We were told to wear it by men who invented stupid womens clothing.

If we are going to decide onw sex is naturally more fluffy and into lacy pink shite... why do we assume it's women and not the men women are trying to look nice for.

*disclaimer not everything a woman wears is to attract a man. BUT attracting a mate is a thing most human will try and do..

No-one wore a suit like Cary Grant.

Except maybe Leonard Cohen in his old age.

He ain't half bad but I raise you Redford.

I remember the film ‘Far and Away’ making quite a big impression on me when I was young. Nicole Kidman runs away to 19th C New York with Tom Cruise and decides to go onto stage, dancing in front of an audience of whooping men. Her costume for this is a pair of bright leggings, boots and a corset.

Fetish wear back then, but she was probably wearing more than the woman who was recently asked to put on a cardigan before boarding a plane.

I think there's also something about the frills and bows on men in this look.

He can jump in my lake any day.

All I can remember from that movie maybe is the accents!

In general in films when men are being presented as 'sexy', the default move seems to be for them to take their top off

so men get nekkid to be sexy and women get dressed?

so men get nekkid to be sexy and women get dressed

That isn't strictly true though. People have just posted Cary Grant, Robert Redford, that Darcy bloke and Harrison Ford in various states of dress. Sexy is in the eye of the beholder. And women in movies can also be presented is various states of dress, from Sophia Loren and Raquel Welch to Jennifer Lawrence and Scarlett Johanssen. So what exactly is the complaint here?

Ooh do you know who I like in a suit...

So what exactly is the complaint here?

there isn't one

trying to get a feel for

1. how men as a group are presented as 'sexy' according to prevailing norms

2. how men as a group present themselves as 'sexy' according to prevailing norms

3. what might be driving those choices

there is definitely clothing for women that would be considered 'sexy' and clothing that would be considered 'not sexy'

do these distinctions exist in men's clothing?

is that David bloody Milliband QueenKubauOfKish ?

good heavens

It's one of the more upsettng things I've seen here on FWR Bernard

And I've just admitted that Rowan Atkinson in a ruff would probably stand half a chance.

I think Bernard it changes through history and Grayson Perry noted in his documentary about transvestism, that is was in the Victorian era when there was something of a moral clean-up (eg- re-naming 'Gropecunt Lane') and men started to wear more boring, unadorned clothes that transvestism really began.

Mmmmmmm David Miliband :o

there is definitely clothing for women that would be considered 'sexy' and clothing that would be considered 'not sexy'

Let's take Helen Mirren as an example. She got her kit off a fair bit in her younger days. She doesn't now. And yet I'd say her profile is comparable to someone lie Harrison Ford - older, still considered desirable/sexy without having to reveal a great deal. But she, like him, is considered to be beautiful/handsome, regardless of whether dressed in scuffs for gardening or posh outfit for the red carpet. Are we talking more about facial beauty here, or charisma, or something else?

I'm not sure there is one-size-fits-all definition of a sexy outfit for women or men. Some women look good in a smart dress. Some do not. some men look good in a suit.Some do not. Same goes for underwear models - have a look at David Gandy, or those pretty boys in the men's underwear adverts. The garments might accentuate toned and tanned features, but they can also look pretty unappealing on flabby and untoned bodies.

but there's certain clothing and make up that a woman can put on to say 'Sexy'. even if she doesn't mean it that way. even if that look is not to everyone's taste. everyone knows what it means.

bright red lip stick is an example, or black stilettos

yes it's a cheesy 'sexy', but we all understand it, even if we don't feel it

is there an equivalent of black stilettos for men without our current cultural norms?

without should obviously read within

I'm finding this interesting at the moment because I am n a very new phase of meeting strangers for sex, and having a lot of text sex with pictures. I'm wearing lingerie a lot, for the reaction - so for me but only because it gets me a seeing to. it is all designed to exaggerate things and definitely to suggest submission - so I like a corset for example which exaggerates the hip/waist ratio and makes me look vulnerable and tied up. I never knew that I was even into sub/dom stuff but I am. when I offer a picture, most but not all men exhort me to cover up, strap up and reveal just a little. I find it interesting.

Tbh lingerie also mimics/suggests youth - as I'm 50 I value this.

The politics all stink. I try not to evade that knowledge. But I do think that evolutionary psych remains shit. the best bet for men spreading genes would be a young woman proven fertile - ie one with the slightly thicker waist and lower breasts of successful gestation and breastfeeding. likewise for women evolutionary psych should suggest we wiuld keel over for stringy lightweight long distance runners - big muscles are a nightmare to maintain protein wise. Generic 'attractiveness' is about exaggeration imo.

maybe we can end all this by reintroducing the ruff

Absolutely TheFrontHoleisConnectedtoThe. Think that it was only in Victorian times that men started wearing plain suits in dark colours. I like lingerie but not nylony knickers which are often inevitable if wearing matching stuff.

Was once rather mystified when an ex referred to a ‘wonderful leopard patterned bra’ I had worn. Realised later what bra he meant but there was clearly an element of fantasy in his perception. I want to assure you all I had not been trying for a retro Raquel Welch in 1,000,000 Years BC look.

and Grayson Perry noted in his documentary about transvestism, that ... it was in the Victorian era when men started to wear more boring, unadorned clothes that transvestism really began.

That’s very interesting WeRiseUp. I should have read the whole thread before replying.

still thinking about the equivalent of black stilettos for men

someone up thread mentioned medallion men, and I guess that look was intended to give a clear 'I'm up for sex' message

you don't see men dressed like that any more though. Is there a millennial equivalent look?