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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Regulatory capture

178 replies

LangCleg · 24/03/2019 19:43

We've had two (well, one still standing) threads on Accenture and its inclusive LGBT event excluding lesbians by power of the state over the last couple of days.

We've also discussed the way in which the policy-setting leadership of other companies, state institutions (for example the police and the NHS), charities (for example NSPCC) and third sector orgs (for example Girl Guides) have enforced the top-down imposition of Gender Identity ideology despite obvious practical and ethical issues and conflicts of rights.

I came across someone remarking about the concept of regulatory capture on Twitter in relation to all this and, since we've also been discussing the actual power relations behind various oppression narratives, I wonder what everyone thought.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Regulatory capture is a form of government failure which occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or political concerns of special interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. When regulatory capture occurs, the interests of firms or political groups are prioritized over the interests of the public, leading to a net loss for society. Government agencies suffering regulatory capture are called "captured agencies".

There are two basic types of regulatory capture and the second rings a few bells:

Non-materialist capture, also called cognitive capture or cultural capture, in which the regulator begins to think like the regulated industry. This can result from interest-group lobbying by the industry.

What do we think? Are there parallels?

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R0wantrees · 26/03/2019 15:46

There may be quite a lot that's relevent to this thread raised at the TRA conference organised by Jane Fae last year.

(There's discussion about how some TRAs were successful in Scotland.)

OP TheHarpySings Thu 18-Oct-18 wrote:
"Hi all

First off, I’m a regular poster, have been here for years under various usernames, it I’m posting here on a name change as I don’t want this traced to me.

On 8th September there was a conference held in London a Bloomsbury Baptist Church which was called We’re Still Here, which featured a variety of panels and workshops and was attended by many prominent people in the pro-GRA reform camp.

I decided to attend to find out what was being said as it was clear that they did not want anyone to attend that wasn’t a TRA or an ally.

What follows are my notes from the day (continues)

(extract)
TheHarpySings Thu 18-Oct-18 20:30:33
5) HOW THE GRA WAS WON

This was a lecture by Christine Burns of Press for Change

CB cited a lot of case law.

One which is relevant to our interests is that of a trans man called Mark Reece (sp?) who wanted to be a vicar and also marry a woman (this was pre female clergy or same sex marriage)

Reece took his care to the ECHR and lost but it brought attention to the case and Alex Carlyle advised Reece.

They recommended tying to find the “lever” to force the Govt to do something. To chip away at laws which are discriminatory.

They are looking for good test cases.

Burns said that the TRAs need to make themselves the legislators friend. Apparently pre GRA 2004 there was an inter-departmental working group set up in Government to look at the issue and produce a report. Press for Change (CB’s org) wrote the report and the government basically just used that (!). This was 2000 - 2001 time- wonder if we can dig this up?

Anyway,, the GRA 2004 was not what the trans rights group wanted as they had to make concessions on things like medical evidence for a GRC." (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

see also thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

RepealTheGRA · 26/03/2019 16:23

That still makes me laugh every time I read about ‘tweedledum’ and his ‘bum face’ and Dawn Butler with her speech nicked from greatest showman.

WHERE. ARE. THE. GROWNUPS?

ThePurportedDoctoress · 26/03/2019 17:37

How many members does the civil service trans & intersex support network "a:gender" have, what is its official status, and in what capacity is it acting when it provides guidance to organisations? The name crops up in all sorts of documents. The website looks very amateurish (it's not even HTTPS), but it has been archived here <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181227224443/agender.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181227224443/agender.org.uk/

MNSDKHheroines · 26/03/2019 17:40

Thinking.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 26/03/2019 18:54

that appropriation of disorders of sexual development from a:gender

it would suit trans ideology so nicely if there really were people who were neither male nor female wouldn't it? unfortunately for them that's a load of bollocks and its dehumanising to people with DSDs to imply that they're neither male nor female. disgusting appropriation.

EweSurname · 26/03/2019 20:23

I don’t know if this is applicable

Regulatory capture
LangCleg · 28/03/2019 11:06

Text of tweet from a serving police officer in reply to Humberside Police's latest disgrace with Harry the Owl.

No worries pal. There's a reason I follow you. 😉 Most coppers are firmly on your side but there's a clear issue around guidance being set at senior level involving lobby groups. In a race to get woke, people have left their common sense behind and as police we can't afford that.

Top down institutional capture.

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FermatsTheorem · 30/03/2019 11:08

Bumping this to add this video from another thread:

It's long, but I suggest watching the account of the faculty meeting from 8 to 10.40 to get a sense of regulatory capture in action (plus the institutionalisation of an authoritarian programme of self-criticism and self denunciation...)

LangCleg · 04/04/2019 19:47

Relevant thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3551084-The-NSPCC-arent-right-about-this-are-they

NSPCC tweeting: Unisex toilets and changing rooms are not unusual and that is a question for individual schools. Under the Equality Act, it's every trans person’s right to be able to use the toilet they want to.

Which is a misrepresentation of the law as advised by extremist transgender lobby orgs.

Please note: the NSPCC is the only UK charity with statutory powers under the Children Act 1989. It can apply for care and supervision orders from the courts for children at risk, by itself, with no supervision by state agencies.

Institutional capture of important charity.

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truthisarevolutionaryact · 05/04/2019 10:41

Re the NSPCC / corporate gravy train:

A quick google shows massive interactions between Stonewall and the NSPCC. And - they're all funded by the DfE. And at the top of the DfE are people like this:
www.stonewall.org.uk/people/senior-champion-year-2019-jonathan-slater

Guess what - this man removes sex segregated toilets and Stonewall gives hime an award for it. I wonder whether a senior civil servant like this has any influence over the millions of ££££ the government hands out to Stonewall and the NSPCC ?

The DfE (responsible for educating and safeguarding our children) gives money to Stonewall & the NSPCC, who give then give DfE employees shiny awards at expensive ceremonies and they all trot off and tell children that boys and girls must share toilets and changing rooms with each other.

The CEO of the NSPCC (Peter Wanless) used to work in the DfE.

Institutional /regulatory capture in action.

RedToothBrush · 05/04/2019 20:04

@LangCleg

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace

How do you think this fits with regulatory capture?

LangCleg · 06/04/2019 12:11

How do you think this fits with regulatory capture?

I think it's highly relevant in that it shows a) a very few people can completely transform institutional purpose and culture and b) the type of people who would want to do that in a malignant way are compulsively attracted to third sector organisations.

This is why we have safeguarding.

Lisa Muggeridge did a great video about how a very few predators infiltrating organisations can do the same thing. I don't have time to dig it out but if someone can be arsed.... pretty please?!

The dynamics are all the same.

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OldCrone · 06/04/2019 13:30

Just catching up with this thread, so I'm going back a bit to RunningWild's post on 26 March.

She was adamant that gender identity is innate and manifests itself at the age of 3.

This is becoming one of those phrases that is being repeated to try and convince us all that it's true. It is starting to appear in documents as 'fact', but no evidence or sources are ever given.

For example, in this document, which was one of the supporting documents for the recent consultation on Sex and Relationships Education in Wales, this is how they define 'gender identity'.

‘Gender identity’ is used in this report to refer to a person’s inner sense of self. Gender identity does not necessarily relate to the sex a person is assigned at birth. Feelings about gender identity start early, around the age of 2-3.

The same definition is given in this document about RSE which was linked to recently on another thread (I think it was the NSPCC one - this document was produced 'in partnership' with the NSPCC).

I explained to another poster who was stating this as fact why this is not true on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3291326-Urgent-banning-gender-identity-conversion?pg=3&messages=100

The other poster had misunderstood what a research paper was saying, but this wasn't helped by the authors not making a clear distinction between sex and gender. Briefly the paper was saying that children recognise their own sex and that of others by the time they are about 3 years old. This is now being interpreted by gender ideologists as 'proof' that they have a 'gender identity' by this age.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 07/04/2019 16:25

The problem is, the GC view just doesn't hold water. If it was a reasonable, evidenced and/or majority view

Hmm Yes, its definitely the GC view thats minority, unreasonable and with no evidence. Its GC people who scream nodebate as they have no arguments. Definitely. Well pointed out.

FermatsTheorem · 07/04/2019 17:42

Amazing how children can't reliably pass the Sally-Anne test until age 4 (i.e. don't have an understanding that other people have minds too, and those minds can hold thoughts different from their own) but allegedly can have a sense of innate gender at age 3.

Almost like everything we know about developmental psychology is being thrown out the window, along with everything we know about safeguarding.

LangCleg · 08/04/2019 09:11

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553935-Times-article-calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children?pg=1

See Times reporting on Tavi & Port - a minimum of five and as many as eighteen - EIGHTEEN - clinicians have resigned due to ethical concerns over child transition in three years.

Who is left? Only those captured by an extremist lobby?

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LangCleg · 13/04/2019 10:23

Good article on the training - aka capture - of various police forces, leading them to involvement in non-criminal critiques of gender identity ideology:

uncommongroundmedia.com/police-uk-trans-issues/

Thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3558491-Meet-the-Experts-Training-Police-in-the-UK-on-Trans-Issues?watched=1

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LangCleg · 16/04/2019 12:58

On neoliberalism, schools, and regulatory capture. Here is information about Stonewall's Children and Young People Conference 2019:

www.stonewall.org.uk/events/children-and-young-people-conference-2019

Notice the keynote speaker is Amanda Spielman, the current Ofsted Chief Inspector of Schools. She has a financial services background and got involved in schools via being on the board of the Ark Academy chain.

From the Wiki article about her:

In June 2016, Spielman was selected by Education Secretary Nicky Morgan to take over as chief inspector of Ofsted, the schools and children's services inspection body in England, to replace Sir Michael Wilshaw. Following a pre-appointment hearing, Spielman's nomination was rejected by the Education Select Committee which expressed concerns about her suitability, citing her lack of teaching experience and her failure to show "passion" and supposed failure to show understanding of the "complex role". However their objections were overridden by the minister who wrote to the Select Committee chair dismissing their arguments and confirming her intention to appoint Spielman.

And now, here she is in a finance company sponsored Stonewall lobbying seminar, representing the official schools inspection body.

Capture in action.

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stillathing · 16/04/2019 14:10

Notice the keynote speaker is Amanda Spielman, the current Ofsted Chief Inspector of Schools. She has a financial services background and got involved in schools via being on the board of the Ark Academy chain.

Currently researching secondaries, including the local Ark Academy, for my happy, non dysphoric but gender non conforming kid. I am certain I recently read a somewhat dodgy policy for all Ark Academies regarding allowing pupils to use whichever changing room / toilet they felt most comfortable with, but now I can't find it. But I remember discussing the wording with my DP, trying to read between the lines and see if it was a woolly "we haven't really thought it through" type of wording or more of a "we have been infiltrated and are really pushing this".

I want the choice to be on the basis of arts provision, green spaces, pastoral care, SEN support etc. But no, I am in all honesty going to have to choose the secondary school which I weigh up to be the least likely to tell a potentially gay kid that their body is wrong. This is terrifying!

stillathing · 16/04/2019 14:12

Also with regards Tavi, you would think 18 resignations would really make more of an impact with someone somewhere. How the hell people can still dismiss the Times journalism on this I do not get.

theOtherPamAyres · 16/04/2019 16:12

The Judicial Conduct Investigation Office thought that it was perfectly acceptable for a judge to scold and penalise the victim of male violence because she didn't use the attacker's preferred pronouns.

Usually we ask victims and witnesses to 'tell the court what happened, in your own words". It is a cornerstone of the justice system that witnesses tell their truth and present the facts, as they saw them. They may well be interrupted and warned for using coarse language, but the policing of pronouns is an extrordinary departure from best practice.

The JCIO demonstrated that it supports the notion of enforcing gender ideology rather than assist the witness to give the very best and truthful account of the violent episode.

When did the Justice system bin the Victims' Code and Witness Charter, the Prosecutors' Pledge and all those empty promises to put the victim at the heart of the CJS?

JackyHolyoake · 16/04/2019 16:54

When did the Justice system bin the Victims' Code and Witness Charter, the Prosecutors' Pledge and all those empty promises to put the victim at the heart of the CJS?

When it received the Bench Book [see Chapter 12 Transgender People]:

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/equal-treatment-bench-book-february-v6-2018.pdf

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 20/04/2019 22:14

I noticed that Joan McAlpine used the term "Policy Capture" when discussing the way women's services etc have been changed in Scotland. I wondered if she was inspired by this thread.

WrathofscumKlop · 20/04/2019 22:42

I also noticed Joan using the term "Policy
Capture" and felt very pleased that I now know exactly what it means.

This thread is one of my favourites.

Regulatory Capture is a whopping great signpost to where we are heading.

Ereshkigal · 25/04/2019 21:44

ACAS on workplace toilets - their guidance is heavily biased towards trans rights over women's:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3569596-Workplace-toilets-ACAS

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