Regulatory capture

[LangCleg]

We've had two (well, one still standing) threads on Accenture and its inclusive LGBT event excluding lesbians by power of the state over the last couple of days.

We've also discussed the way in which the policy-setting leadership of other companies, state institutions (for example the police and the NHS), charities (for example NSPCC) and third sector orgs (for example Girl Guides) have enforced the top-down imposition of Gender Identity ideology despite obvious practical and ethical issues and conflicts of rights.

I came across someone remarking about the concept of regulatory capture on Twitter in relation to all this and, since we've also been discussing the actual power relations behind various oppression narratives, I wonder what everyone thought.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Regulatory capture is a form of government failure which occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or political concerns of special interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. When regulatory capture occurs, the interests of firms or political groups are prioritized over the interests of the public, leading to a net loss for society. Government agencies suffering regulatory capture are called "captured agencies".

There are two basic types of regulatory capture and the second rings a few bells:

Non-materialist capture, also called cognitive capture or cultural capture, in which the regulator begins to think like the regulated industry. This can result from interest-group lobbying by the industry.

What do we think? Are there parallels?

You have every right to be involved in politics. But why would you tweet your views when it upsets the trans community?

I believe women should have access to abortion on demand. This upsets the catholic community. will the police ring me up and ask me why I have said this?

can they not hear themselves....??!

I believe women should have access to abortion on demand. This upsets the catholic community. will the police ring me up and ask me why I have said this?

In view of the BBC deeming abortion a ‘contentious issue’ I wouldn’t actually put that one past them.

The deciding factor seems to be have ‘men who want to control women’ been ‘upset’.

twitter comment.

Also surely, some in the trans community etc?

Do they really think this is likely to be a winning strategy? They have completely lost the plot with this.

Harry the Owl's case will have been recorded as a hate incident. And when the police report their hate incident statistics, they will be taken as evidence of rampant transphobia, and the police will be told to do more to crack down on the 'hate'. And on and on it goes.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/what-are-hate-incidents-and-hate-crime/

"What are hate incidents?

The police and Crown Prosecution Service have agreed a common definition of hate incidents.

They say something is a hate incident if the victim or anyone else think it was motivated by hostility or prejudice based on one of the following things:

disability
race
religion
transgender identity
sexual orientation.

This means that if you believe something is a hate incident it should be recorded as such by the person you are reporting it to. All police forces record hate incidents based on these five personal characteristics."

And when the police report their hate incident statistics, they will be taken as evidence of rampant transphobia, and the police will be told to do more to crack down on the 'hate'. And on and on it goes

Prominant TRAs explicitly encourage reportings eg James Morton

Elizabeth Burden
January 24 2019 Times,
'Principal backs transgender students over ‘hurtful’ stickers'

(extract)
*A spokeswoman for Women and Girls in Scotland, which campaigns for women’s equality and against transgender women having access to women-only spaces, was outraged that the dictionary definition of a woman had seemingly been interpreted as hate speech. “We consider any notion that female people should not be able to define ourselves in public as itself a form of oppression, and an impediment to addressing the sexism and misogyny [faced] because we are female,” she said.

She claimed that transgender activists encouraged people to report individual stickers as hate crimes to maximise the number of alleged offences. On Facebook last November, James Morton, the Scottish Trans Alliance (STA) manager, responding to a comment on the Edinburgh stickers, said: “Please log it by reporting on the Police Scotland online hate crime form. We need the stats.” Vic Valentine, a policy officer for STA, said: “If people feel distressed by transphobic stickers, we encourage them to report [it] to police. We want to improve trans people’s confidence in approaching the police.” (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/principal-backs-transgender-students-over-hurtful-stickers-9jpztg2tz

Yes I completely agree, but they have already had the opportunity to record Harry's "hate incident" so why are they haranguing him further about it? They know most people don't agree with it.

The very inclusion of ‘transgender identity’ is proof of ‘regulatory capture’ what even is that? That’s not a protected characteristic in the Equalities Act.

I’m very close to all Hate Crime legislation being something else I’d like to see repealed. I don’t see it makes any improvement to the everyday experiences of disabled, gay or bame people and more and more is just being used as an attack on free speech.

Ereshkigal Is this in response to HarryOwl's complaint?
I think he said he had intended to lodge a complaint after the initial contact.

Its not a very effective/satisfactory resolution strategy if that's the case.

Original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3487853-Harry-the-owl-visited-by-police

To me it reads as if the police responded to Harry’s complaint, about them impinging on his right to free speech/freedom of expression, by phoning him up and doubling down on their view that he should stop speaking/expressing himself.

I really hope I’m wrong.

I doubt that's going to make him drop his complaint though, is it? Possibly just adding more justification to it.

Tweet:
@ HarryTheOwl
26m26 minutes ago

"I am stunned, shocked, upset, aghast and fuming.Just had Inspector Wilson from @Humberbeat call me re my complaint."

Ereshkigal IMO it seems likely to add additional reasons to challenge Humberside Police should Harry wish to.

Its quite extraordinary.

The very inclusion of ‘transgender identity’ is proof of ‘regulatory capture’ what even is that? That’s not a protected characteristic in the Equalities Act.

EXACTLY.

It's institutional capture to the point that a police officer who has achieved the senior rank of inspector cannot do anything other than parrot the ludicrous "training" s/he has been given by lobby groups.

It's an officer of the law, FFS.

(When that training MISREPRESENTS THE LAW. Institutional capture complete: officers of the law are busy enforcing stuff that is not in legislation.)

RepealtheGRA I'm pretty much with you on that. Especially as hate crime has become so corrupted as a term. My understanding was that there had to be an actual crime and the hate was an aggravated aspect of that crime.
But now we have police recording 'hate incidents'.
We end up in the situation where citizens stating biological truth, that humans cannot change sex, are then called on by the police.

I think I witnessed this regulatory capture when a group of us attended a meeting with the civil servants in charge of the GRA Reform consultation process in Scotland.
There were civil servants there from Justice and Family Division (the dept responsible for the reform) Equalities (I think) and a woman from the LGBTQ+ civil service staff something - don't know whether it was union or an internal staff grouping they have.

Her presence wasn't explained, but she had quite a lot to say and I think was there to make sure her colleagues didn't indulge in wrong speak. Certainly not many of the other women civil servants spoke. She told us it was impossible to define woman, as this was an individual experience. She was adamant that gender identity is innate and manifests itself at the age of 3.

She got really cross with me, quite clearly holding a lot of anger in as well, when I expressed my astonishment that these views were those of the Scottish Govt.

From other things that civil servants have told me (who are not in agreement with the gender cult) I believe there has been capture of the Scottish civil service.

All political parties in Scotland, the NHS, police, courts, education, trade unions, women's and lgb organisations, our artistic and cultural institutions,, many sports bodies are signed up to the trans ideology and are willing to see women castigated, shunned and disappeared from public life in the name of it.

Scotland has always been a really misogynist society. Think it was probably very easy to peddle the trans ideology - misogyny is institutional anyway.

She told us it was impossible to define woman, as this was an individual experience. She was adamant that gender identity is innate and manifests itself at the age of 3.

Blimey!
I hope she was asked to provide evidence/ sources for this.

All political parties in Scotland, the NHS, police, courts, education, trade unions, women's and lgb organisations, our artistic and cultural institutions,, many sports bodies are signed up to the trans ideology and are willing to see women castigated, shunned and disappeared from public life in the name of it.

Scotland has always been a really misogynist society. Think it was probably very easy to peddle the trans ideology - misogyny is institutional anyway.

From commentary about Westminster Social Policy Forum, 'Next Steps For Gender Equality' last year,

Pratchet Fri 29-Jun-18 wrote:
"Well they'll know it's over. Bex Stinson was asked how they got Scotland to cave so quickly and said it was because they had private conversation in private rooms with the people who provide services, not people who use them. I mean, that's how brazen and confident they were, to come out and say that and not think there's anything bad about it. That is over. Women are watching."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents?pg=2

(Bex Stinson is head of Stonewall's Trans Inclusion)

She told us it was impossible to define woman, as this was an individual experience.

Just how far up your own arse can you disappear.

I'd like this to be tried outside the western woke bubble and see if woman can be defined there.

Of course it can be defined. It's the women who are the ones raped and used as sex slaves in the so called Islamic state.

Or are these fuckwits really going to profess differently something along the lines of these being 'uncivilised' places or they are just like that because they have not embraced 'progressive ideas' yet. Sounding like an imperialist victorian talking about savages in Africa and India in the process?

Honestly do these people not realise what they sound like?

I'd like this to be tried outside the western woke bubble and see if woman can be defined there.

Professor Rosa Freedman's speech at For Women in Scotland covered definitions within International Law.

There was a transcript uploaded but I can't seem to open it properly.

forwomen.scot/public-meetings/

It’s interesting that she said it was impossible to define “woman”, though presumably a dictionary could sort that out pretty quick. But did she say it was also impossible to define “man”.?

Her presence wasn't explained, but she had quite a lot to say and I think was there to make sure her colleagues didn't indulge in wrong speak.

Quite aside from the nonsense she was spouting, this is exactly what I mean. It's sinister. It's the hallmark of repressive societies.

And it certainly isn't being done on behalf of anyone who is oppressed. It is being done in service of people with immense social and structural power.

Quite aside from the nonsense she was spouting, this is exactly what I mean. It's sinister. It's the hallmark of repressive societies.

Very much so.

Exactly R0wantrees. This is exactly how it has been done. There's an LGBT Parliamentary group where MSPs and these lobbying groups meet regularly. And where in one set of minutes women who object to GRA reform are called oh, something like a few bunch of bigots or the like i.e. nothing to worry your little heads about, a minor local difficulty from some weird people.

Also, there wouldn't have been any input to the consultation other than the women's orgs who are totally on board with self id if those women who were a bit more clued up recognised it for what it was and decided to mobilise us. Thanks to my mate who saw it and just contacted the government to ask for the meeting. And we held a public meeting (disrupted by Sisters Uncut, venue under sustained social media attack for weeks afterwards).

They were relying on the fact they had all their ducks in a row to take this forward i.e. civil service on board, 3rd sector women's and LGB now T orgs on board, political parties.

And they would have got away with it too if it wasn't for us pesky feminists who understand female oppression and find it more than a bit insulting to suggest you can identify your way out of it.