I was mildly GC in front of my mates today. Holy moley, this has gone further than I realised.

[LeesPostersAreInFrames]

I have a hobby group of friends, we met up today. The hobby attracts left wing types, of which I am one.

The subject of LGBT+ came up, and after a bit the subject of gendered toilets and changing rooms came up. I expressed that I felt women's spaces should be strictly for women only.

One friend said that the toilets in almost all of the schools, colleges and universities in the area had been changed to non-gender specific.

Another said that their training in several fashion retail spaces had been to allow a person to use the gendered changing room of their choice. There was a "larger" changing area (not allowed to say disabled), which they could offer to trans people, but they could go in the gendered room they felt most comfortable in. I asked what happened if anybody ever complained; they were trained to say they were sorry but policy was to allow people to use the space they felt most comfortable in. These spaces had curtains but they'd had problems previously with mobile phone cameras being used.

The girls in the schools had expressed discomfort at boys being able to hear the rustle of sanitary wear wraps as they used them.

My friends seemed surprised at my views, and I didn't go any further. I'm not really sure how to have these conversations, but it seems utterly essential and urgent.

It's in the UK, and it's much more widespread than I had thought.

Help. How do I get people questioning this stuff?

I'm no expert but I've had a few approaches from 'accidentally gone off on one for twenty minutes in the pub' to 'softly softly catchy monkey' to just a very straightforward 'obviously women need single sex changing spaces who on earth would think otherwise?'.
Once I've had a reasonable chat with people they are 99/100 in agreement. However, I've found this often doesn't equate to them actually getting fired up enough to either feel angry or to take action. I'm looking at ways of engaging people a bit more directly.
People these days seem subdued by instagram and the grind of work.

...So males can change in the changing room 'where they feel most comfortable?'

What is this? Porky's 3?

there's this complete acceptance of received 'woke' wisdom.
When people actually stop, think and reflect on what that received wisdom is, they realise that the Emperor is indeed naked.

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?

😬 Glad I wasn't the only one wondering that.

How do I get people questioning this stuff

Well the subject came up and they were surprised by your views. So they probably didn't feel the same as you do. Not everyone has a problem with these things and I'm afraid you can't change that.

Personally I think as long as cubicles are floor to ceiling with lockable doors then it's fine. I don't like curtains in changing rooms no matter who's around.

If people acknowledge all these problems, why are they surprised at your views on them? Why do they think that cameras in the changing rooms and schoolgirls feeling uncomfortable and ashamed don't warrant a rethink? I don't really get the lack of dot-joining.

Why do stores still have separate male and female changing rooms if they believe most customers are happy with mixed changing? Why not advertise them as mixed.

If all customers know that these changing rooms are mixed, how do they decide which they feel most comfortable in? What criteria are they using?

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?

Lentil knitting

Lentil weaving you idiot Count!

Perhaps they are agreeing with you to be polite and stop the rant, qwertyskirty.

lottiebel123
What is the problem with being 'woke'? Personally I'd see that as a compliment. I wouldn't want to be alseep.
I also identify happily as a SJW

*asleep, sp

True. You weave lentils and knit yoghurt, I believe.

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?

Weave your own granola.

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?
Singing?

True. You weave lentils and knit yoghurt, I believe

And plait armpit hair

More seriously, you need to exist in a world where many people think you are wrong. Yes, make your views known, but evangelising only ever puts people's backs up. And people can be just as well informed as you but form different opinions based on that information.

It bothers me as well that they seemed to say they'd heard girls were uncomfortable sharing with boys, but there was a sort of, 'what can you do? ' approach.

The fact of girls being uncomfortable isn't an opinion that you can agree or disagree with, surely?

Unless they take the line that the girls reaction is bigotry, no different to racism, and they should be educated not to express (or feel?) discomfort.

What is the problem with being 'woke'? Personally I'd see that as a compliment. I wouldn't want to be alseep.
Lol
I'd rather be engaged in critical thinking rather than be suffering from insomnia, surviving on autopilot. Which is "woke".

I also identify happily as a SJW

Really? Would never have guessed from your posts

I know I’m missing the point, but what hobby attracts left wing types?

😬 Glad I wasn't the only one wondering that.

Lentil knitting

Lentil weaving you idiot Count!

Weave your own granola

Singing

Absolutely ROFLMAO at these things!😂

I'm being boring and trying to retain some semblance of vague anonymity. I didn't know these was a link between our hobby and political views until in another random conversation last week when somebody who has been doing and teaching it much longer than I have, pointed it out when I was saying it seemed to attract nice and decent people. Although I do like weaving my own granola.

Yes, there was this slightly weird impression of, yes, we know women don't feel safe in mixed changing spaces or loos, but what can you do, trans people's rights trump that kind of attitude. I stayed away from confronting that because I'm only fairly recently "peaked" myself and unsure what to do or say for the best. Hence seeking ideas on here, or at least people who recognise this feeling!

Seriously. The gender neutral toilets being more common than not now in schools has floored me. I thought we were some way off that.

If l had to share a changing room area with males l just wouldn't buy anything from the shop.

l think when businesses combine toileting areas is lazy.

As a Women and Mother l am very conscious of mine and others personal space.l just think that it is a higher risk to share these type of areas.

Our local Gym/swimming pool just reopened and now the main changing room is communal,apparently their are family changing rooms but you have to go through this main area to to reach them.People have commented nude men can be seen in this area so we won't be joining it.

l just think some of us are more private than others.

More seriously, you need to exist in a world where many people think you are wrong. Yes, make your views known, but evangelising only ever puts people's backs up. And people can be just as well informed as you but form different opinions based on that information.*

No evangelising going on from me! I stated two opinions (women should have access to women only spaces, and mixed sex individual cubicle floor to ceiling wall and door changing spaces were my preference) then shut up and listened to other people. Who, I guess, might already be en route to changing their own views.

I don't want too live in a world where everybody agrees with me. But I want to do my best to encourage people to think critically about the erosion of women's spaces and not just comply without question.

One friend sai£ the toilets was unisex in most schools and colleges

How does the friend know

Is the friend a toilet inspector through out the Uk ?

All the lols at skyzlimt

Yes, there was this slightly weird impression of, yes, we know women don't feel safe in mixed changing spaces or loos, but what can you do, trans people's rights trump that kind of attitude.

For me, it's nothing to do with trans people's rights trumping mine as a womans.
If cubicles are floor to ceiling, I just don't mind who is in the next the changing room or toilet cubicle as I don't have to be in there with them. Before I go in the cubicle, I am fully dressed, by the time I come out, I'm fully dressed. Why would I feel unsafe? I do understand the issue with curtains in changing rooms, I don't like them as there's always toddlers wondering around playing with the curtains and I don't particularly want to be undressed in front of anyone I don't know. I still use them though.

Unless top shop have changed since I was a teen, flimsy curtains are standard.

Any old bloke being able to wander in is dodgy as hell.

The response to this often seems to be 'I don't like changing rooms with curtains so I don't use them' but that's not a solution is it?

Also opens the way for victim blaming if /when something happens (well she knew there could be men in there and she still stripped to her knickers).