Rod Liddle thinks Susie Green should be jailed

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In today's Sunday Times, Rod Liddle states of Susie Green:
"My own view is that she should be in prison for child abuse and assault."

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-is-beyond-satire-woke-britain-look-out-or-youll-render-me-obsolete-6xff2xvb2

(don't know how to do share tokens, sorry)

Weren't women's rights disregarded from the start when the male doctors required males who wanted to change their sex 'live in role' for two years?

Yes. Exactly. I think Ray Blanchard himself has at least partially acknowledged this on Twitter fairly recently.

And how easy it would be for the patient to say they want to stop - teenagers not being known for their ability to admit they've made a mistake.

Just to put this out there. My sibling transitioned as an adult but if they changed their mind, my mother's world would collapse even more than it already has.

Thus there is the responsibility of the decision not just on my sibling, but also on my mother and how she has emotionally invested to deal with it. Plus to an extent my own views and it being almost a sibling 'told you so' scenario.

So as such there is almost a locking in process where at a certain point it becomes all but impossible to reverse from. Having gone through the process of rewriting history and emotional suppression everyone involved has created an alternative reality from which escape is all but impossible.

I do believe this goes a long way to explain post transition suicide - they do not merely come from a lack of acceptance from the rest of society. Its just as likely to come from the social isolation that arises from realising that transition isn't what was promised after all from people who were supportive of transition.

It annoys me that the suicide of pre-transistion trans identifying people is talked about a lot and weaponised, but there is near total silence on suicide post transition as a potential problem. It does not fit the narrative so its ignored. We have an over inflation of the risk of suicide which might lead to contagion in young people and a suppressed discussion of the risk of suicide post transition which leaves these same people at risk through lack of support networks and an environment which makes it impossible for discussion or expression of regret which might go a long way to reduce that risk.

None of this is healthy.

crikey I recognise that family dynamic Red.....

We have an over inflation of the risk of suicide which might lead to contagion in young people and a suppressed discussion of the risk of suicide post transition

And naturally leads to the question "WHY?" - why are young people being pushed so hard into transition, and everyone else into affirmation?

crikey I recognise that family dynamic Red.....

Amoregentlemanlikemanner I can honestly say I've never ever thought about that nor seen it as being similar to any sort of other pattern until you've posted that.

I just feel cast out and demonised for not wanting to take part in the family fantasy of how everything is just fine and a perfect example of a good family who are extra amazing for being so accepting.

Your post has taken me back quite a lot.

I feel guilty and often question myself (and comments of others questioning me don't help either) about why I never felt able to take part in the whole charade.

I just feel cast out and demonised for not wanting to take part in the family fantasy of how everything is just fine and a perfect example of a good family who are extra amazing for being so accepting.

I think a lot of us know that dynamic and not necessarily with regards to the trans issue

Nobody should feel guilt for being on good terms with reality

The study found that trans women were more than twice as likely to have a stroke as cis women and almost twice as likely to have a stroke as cis men.

Trans women were also five times and 4.5 times more likely to develop blood clots than cis women and cis men, respectively

And this was after a relatively short time (8/9 years) on hormone therapy.

Would that risk rise with the length of time on hormones? The young people taking hormones today will have taken them for 30+ years by the time they are 50.

Hmph. Estrogen type oral contraceptives suited me well but I wasn't allowed to have them beyond 50.

Susie Green & other TRAs who advocate pro affirmative medical interevention for children seem to often cite Dutch studies as evidence base 'best practice'

I was interested to watch this recent documentary about how some Dutch medical professionals are whistleblowing and interrogating the Dutch clinics' affirmative approach.

The key Safeguarding aspect which is raised is the failure to explore monitor and/or support people post medical intervention or to acknowledge the extent of emotional vulnerability / suicide ideation & actualisation.

The failure in duty of care post life changing medical treatments required for patients is identified.

A patient Patrick speaks very movingly and eloquently on the devastation caused to his life.

'Transgender Regret - A Documentary'

Peachyoghurt
Published on 24 Feb 2019
Not all transgender stories are about success. This Dutch docu shows the dark side of transition. A side that's not rare and needs to be talked about.

I don't take credits for this docu. It was on the Dutch public TV in December 2018.
I added English subtitles and my only purpose is to share it, so more people can see it.

Note: as far as I know, Patrick is still alive.
I hope he finds some happiness."

Its worth watching:

So as such there is almost a locking in process where at a certain point it becomes all but impossible to reverse from.

And even the idea that 'social transition' is a simple reversible process is wrong. As soon as a child insists that they are the opposite sex and is indulged and allowed to change their name and insist on opposite sex pronouns, it is difficult for that child to admit that they have made a mistake and that they want to go back to their original name and identity. When everyone has bent over backwards to accept their special transgender identity, how can they just abandon it and go back to their original, ordinary self?

Now I want more than ever to go and shake our friends with trans children and ask whether they are getting these warnings (especially the child who transitioned while her dad was seriously ill following a heart attack, so is presumably already at higher familial risk, ffs).

I'm starting to feel complicit in this whole scandal by not mentioning the risks, actually.

Really sorry about that, Dodo.

Must be a very difficult position to be in.

Transitioning in response to childhood trauma (a parent being very ill for example) is quite common, unfortunately. But lobby groups are very resistant to this being explored.

Tavistock Bell report

"The Observer believes that the report questions whether the clinic should do more to consider young people’s personal histories, notably by examining whether they are on the autistic spectrum, have experienced trauma or are being influenced by social pressures, before helping them on the path to transition".

Of our three friends, two girls transitioned while their dads were seriously ill, in fact. The other family I know rather less well but suspect the child may be autistic like at least one parent.

Anecdotes are not data, but for goodness' sake...

An understanding of the risks is also relevant to whether someone can legally consent to a procedure.

"La la la i'm not listening, it will all be fine" doesn't cut it.

This is a very sobering read, Dodo.

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

It is an analysis of the Tavistock Research study 2010 - 2014 into the use of puberty blockers for children. The study was never published and negative outcomes were ignored.

The Tavistock complains that there is "sparse evidence" in the field of puberty blockers for children and yet did not follow up on any of the participants in their own study when they turned 18.

An understanding of the risks is also relevant to whether someone can legally consent to a procedure.

"La la la i'm not listening, it will all be fine" doesn't cut it

From about 15 minutes in, would anyone class this as informed consent?

I'm so fucking worried for them, Popchyk. One has definitely transitioned to the point of taking enough testosterone to produce facial hair and slight male-pattern balding. I think, though not sure, that she may also have had a mastectomy. There's just no happy way back to your normal body, is there? You're committed. From 18.

I was such a naive little chump at 18. I needed another decade to get more to grips with the world (possibly still working on it).

Meanwhile, I forgot the sodding 'approved pronouns'. He may have had a mastectomy, dearest Mods, if you prefer.

Not at all Thing it's very sad.

It also made me think about the role of HCPs in administering treatment. It's not my area of professional practice, but I don't think I would be prepared to administer testosterone to that child.

would anyone class this as informed consent?

Leo thinks that Leo has a 'boy's brain'. I wonder what Leo actually means by this, and why changes to Leo's body are seen to be the solution. It's also not clear whether Leo really understands that people can't change sex.

I was interested to watch this recent documentary about how some Dutch medical professionals are whistleblowing and interrogating the Dutch clinics' affirmative approach

I just watched the whole thing - it was interesting how some of it seemed to be mirroring what is happening in the UK.

Poor Patrick though, I felt really angry on his behalf, he was blatantly let down. And the transman featured who was put on testosterone after seeing a psychiatric bfor a month

Its unbearably sad, and there are going to be so many damaged people

I went back to that article above on heart attack risk, wondering if I'd misread it above.

Note the total absence of transmen from the points they highlighted in bold? I thought maybe I'd been hasty and my friends' kids wouldn't be at greater risk after all, being female-on-male-hormones rather than vice versa. But the article itself says:

'Trans women had heart attacks more than twice as often as cis women, and trans men were over three times more likely to have a heart attack than cis women.* '

So it's still high risk for transmen. They just didn't think that bit was worth highlighting, I suppose.

Who wouldn’t warm to Leo and Leo’s loving family?

I don’t understand what would’ve been so wrong with being a lesbian, though. I can picture the lesbian Lily might’ve become, and she’s every bit as sweet as Leo.

I'm pretty sure that most sincere and good people would take the hint and wonder if they were doing something wrong if Rod Liddle agreed with them.