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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Karen Clifton (Strictly) turned away from barbers

75 replies

joggerbottom · 18/03/2019 22:48

DM link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6823271/Karen-Clifton-tears-reveals-turned-away-barbers-woman.html

Karen has been wearing her hair short recently and has been having it styled at a barbershop. She returned to the same barbers this week to be told that she is unable to have her hair cut there because 'she is a woman'.

I have so much to say on this and I feel conflicted in my thoughts too.

Where does the line start when accessing sex segregated / gendered spaces? I say gendered because the article says gender and I believe hair styles are gendered and not specific to a particular sex.

I feel that it shouldn't matter where you have your hair styled, but I can't help siding with a business owner who should be able to have a right to refuse business. Just like the women who refused to wax lady balls.

On a lighter note; I think Karen's new hair looks fab!

OP posts:
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 18/03/2019 22:53

Im confused

The article seemed to go on to say that anyone of any gender can get their haircut in a specific style

Or did i misread that

MagicMix · 18/03/2019 22:57

Haircuts are indeed gendered and have nothing to do with sex - it is a job that requires some physical contact but nothing intimate.

I do think it is discriminatory to refuse to do a haircut on a woman's head when you'd happily do the exact same haircut on a man's head. It's absolutely nothing like being asked to wax a scrotum when you offer the service of waxing vulvas.

Melroses · 18/03/2019 22:58

I think they cut her hair a couple of times, then said 'no' and then when it all blew up, delivered that statement.

Melroses · 18/03/2019 23:00

It's absolutely nothing like being asked to wax a scrotum when you offer the service of waxing vulvas.

I would have thought waxing a scrotum would need some special training, as the skin is not quite as firm and it needs to be tight for waxing...…………

LassOfFyvie · 18/03/2019 23:03

I've never heard of her. She sounds absolutely ridiculous. "Tearing up" "punched to the pit of her stomach". Really?

RhymingRabbit · 18/03/2019 23:06

What a pointless drama. Crying? Ffs!

MsTiggywinkletoyou · 18/03/2019 23:09

Short simple haircut for men: 15 quid.
Same haircut for women: 25 quid at least.
A possible reason?

Finfintytint · 18/03/2019 23:17

She has just been a victim of boys club mentality. Bit like the golf. They dont want women “spoiling” a get together for boys on a Saturday morning.

Gingerkittykat · 18/03/2019 23:18

It's not the same as ball waxing.

A barber has no more need to exclude women wanting a barber cut than a traditional hairdresser shop has to exclude men.

I do agree we need sex segregated space but where we get hair cut is not one of them.

RomanticFatigue · 18/03/2019 23:45

There is different training involved to cut "men's" hair and "women's" hair - but these are due to the styles rather than the sex of the person having the cut. So, it actually would make sense for Karen to go to a barber given her current style. But, being in tears over it does seem a little ott.

Whatisthisfuckery · 18/03/2019 23:46

I had this. A barber refused me my usual short back and sides, and my hair is very short. I asked him what was the difference between what I wanted and what he’d do for a man, and what’s the difference between my hair and male hair. He got really aggressive, I mean shouting at me in a busy shop. He was actually shaking with rage. I asked for his manager’s number and rang up and complained. He was a bit funny to start with but when he couldn’t tell me exactly what the problem was he calmed down. He said I was welcome to come in for a cut but of course I wasn’t going back there to give them my money.

Then another time DP wanted her hair done at a unisex hair dressers and me and DS needed doing so I booked us in as well. I had my usual and the bloody hair dresser tried to charge me for a womens’ cut, which is an extra tenner. I was like ‘no, I think not. You’ve just done more to that man’s hair than you did to mine and charged him the lower rate. I’m not paying an extra tenner just because I’ve got a vagina.’ He was a bit flustered but then he tried to charge me extra for DS, the cheeky fucker. Obviously I wasn’t having that. He’s gone out of business now which is not surprising.

Thankfully though most barbers are fine. I still have to deal with the usual patronising ‘are you sure you want it that short’ crap. One day a guy got in quite a state because I asked for a number one all over. On the whole though I’ve found women hair dressers to be more of a pain. One woman refused to cut my hair as short as I wanted it so I walked out.

Original poster
joggerbottom · 19/03/2019 06:00

Sorry, I didn't mean to compare the barbers to the women in the salons. I meant to start a discussion about why it is ok to refuse a woman from a barbers but how can women not refuse an intimate treatment without being bullied.

OP posts:
larrygrylls · 19/03/2019 06:12

If cutting hair is not gendered (after all both men and women have pretty much all styles these days), then all hair salons should be for everyone?

WhoWants2Know · 19/03/2019 06:14

In some ways, I think it can depend on the barber shop. For some cultures the barber shop really is a significant place for men to gather and spend time together in addition to getting a shave and a haircut.

I know that we often think of single sex spaces on the basis of safety for women who are vulnerable. But I think it's healthy for each sex to have some places they gather and bond.

MrsJamin · 19/03/2019 06:40

There's some barbers round here that have refused a female friend of mine who wanted a short back and sides. It was a Turkish barbers where the barbers all had a muslim faith. I could see both arguments though as surely it would oppose an Islamic man's faith to touch the hair of a woman who's not his wife? My friend was insensed but I thought she was being too harsh on them.

Disfordarkchocolate · 19/03/2019 06:44

Come to one of my local barbers where everyone is given a short back and sides regardless of what you ask for and then you have a right to be upset.

Original poster
joggerbottom · 19/03/2019 06:49

Who - that's how I felt when I started the thread.

When I read the article and looked at Karen's reaction it just seemed like such a muddle to me.

Challenging gendered norms on one hand, respecting the right to have sex separate spaces on the other. I'm finding this so hard to explain, sorry.

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/03/2019 06:52

Well, the woman who founded the company isn't at all amused is she?

anyone of any gender who wants an undercut, as Karen currently sports, a tight fade or a short, back and sides, Jacks of London barbers CAN AND WILL deliver

TimeLady · 19/03/2019 07:12

Has Karen got a new venture to promote?

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 19/03/2019 07:15

Tbh her hairstyle doesn't look like any typical "bloke cut" that I'd expect to see from a barber.

llangennith · 19/03/2019 09:13

Just read the full article. What a drama llama! I can understand her being a bit annoyed and complaining to management but all the tragedy and tears😂

RitaFairclough · 19/03/2019 09:25

Are there any women-only hairdressers? Most salons are unisex aren’t they?

I think her reaction is odd, but it is weird that barbers won’t cut women’s hair.

VickyEadie · 19/03/2019 09:29

My (female) partner got fed up of hairdressers not styling her hair as she wanted so went to the Turkish barber in our small town and asked for a cut there. The bloke was a bit reluctant - he said his boss had said he wasn't to cut women's hair - but as the boss wasn't there, he did it. Half the cost of the salons!

mydogisthebest · 19/03/2019 09:32

I would be annoyed but I certainly would not cry (and I usually cry at almost everything).

I have my hair very similar to Karen and am paying £40 at a hairdresser. I might look into going to a barber as I am sure it would be cheaper

JustHereForASec · 19/03/2019 09:33

My dad was a barber and the reason he gave when I said why would he refuse to cut a woman's hair was that it just was not the done thing and when I challenged him on that he said well he wouldn't want to deal with the fallout from a woman being upset with him if it was too short!

But this was all forty years ago...

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