Karen Clifton (Strictly) turned away from barbers

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DM link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6823271/Karen-Clifton-tears-reveals-turned-away-barbers-woman.html

Karen has been wearing her hair short recently and has been having it styled at a barbershop. She returned to the same barbers this week to be told that she is unable to have her hair cut there because 'she is a woman'.

I have so much to say on this and I feel conflicted in my thoughts too.

Where does the line start when accessing sex segregated / gendered spaces? I say gendered because the article says gender and I believe hair styles are gendered and not specific to a particular sex.

I feel that it shouldn't matter where you have your hair styled, but I can't help siding with a business owner who should be able to have a right to refuse business. Just like the women who refused to wax lady balls.

On a lighter note; I think Karen's new hair looks fab!

While I hate the vagina tax added to women's haircuts I do think that we need to respect that men are entitled to their own spaces too.

And yes, I consider barbers shops in that.

Thought owner dealt with it really well - anybody can have their hair cut but barbers and hairdressers have different training so it is at your own risk. Often wonder when I see men at the hairdressers why they are spending so much more than if they went to a barber. Have friend who got long straight hair cut by barber at non busy time for about a fiver but a barber near me has a ‘men and boys only’ sign. Yes, Karen was making a fuss in her reaction but it’s yet another example of different rules for men’s and women’s spaces. Enraging that waxer person takes salons to court when it is totally legitimate to differentiate between serving men and women.

For crying out loud! I’m all for equality of treatment and opportunities, but a woman crying over refusal of a haircut is bloody ridiculous. I think it’s just a nonsense that anyone objects to a male barber refusing to cut a female’s hair. We’re not talking about a ‘boys own club’ where deals and promotions are decided at the detriment of females, but a place where men go in, get their hair cut and leave.

Women only spaces that provide a level of very intimate care or female services should also have the right to refuse men, no matter what they call themselves.

An over reaction, really attention seeking. Horrid hair cut anyway.

I had the opposite problem. I have very short hair now - because of illness - and when i went to a local haidressers, the woman sneered and said 'You need to go to a barbers for that sort of cut. We don't do it here,'.

I'm pretty tough but was surprisingly upset by this

TheGodess: Well when it isn't about choice and outside your control it's not surprising you were upset.

The barber in our village is a woman. She's very no nonsense - if this Karen asked for the haircut she has in that article, she'd probably get a short back and sides!
I'm not sure many barbers would know how to do that style, as it's clearly a woman's style.

Women only spaces that provide a level of very intimate care or female services should also have the right to refuse men, no matter what they call themselves.

Of course they should.

I have just watched the video. She is ridiculous. I can understand being miffed, put out, annoyed etc but to go on video being dramatic loses any sympathy from me.
She is being rather pathetic.

For me the real issue is not about whether barbers should cut womens hair if they don't want to

But the disparity in costs between mens and womens hairdressing. While obviously a full head of highlights + cut restyle treatment etc is going to be more pricey, the disparity in a short style is less easy to explain.

I didn't read the article but if she's been there twice no probs and then they say no it seems a bit odd.

Also - if she had said she identified as a man and they still said no, presumably this would be a case that various massive groups would take up as a cause, in the same way that happens when transwomen are refused entry to womens only stuff? My gut feeling is that it doesn't work the same the other way around.

Women do get charged more, but then men have two types of cut - a simple trim will be very cheap, but a style will be closer to the price of a woman's style.
DH pays £12 for a trim, but I know of men who pay £50 for a style.
Maybe the issue is there isn't a "cheap trim" alternative for women.

I have short hair and go to a barbers. It's usually a woman that does my hair. It sounds like the stylist that had previously done Karen's hair wasn't there to do it.

Although I often think any barber could do my short hair, if they are a men and boys only barber, that's up to them. Men do need male spaces too. Anyway, it's their business, it's up to them.

A friend used to go to the barbers. One day he told her he could no longer cut her hair. His lease specified he could use his shop for cutting mens hair. The hairdresser next door had complained he was also giving women short hair cuts. My friend had no interest in going to the blue rinse salon next door so had to find somewhere else.

So having read the link >daily fail, shudder< this actually feels like a bit of a non story. The statement from the founder of the shop pretty much says she's been in before, we absolutely welcome women and many of our staff are trained to apply their technical skills to both sexes.

So surely rather than cry all over social media (I really cannot get why this upset her so much - compared it to being punched in the stomach ?!) she should have stood her ground a bit longer and asked to speak to a manger maybe? Then called the head office if still no joy.

At least that's what I would have done. This is nothing to do with what's between her legs, sounds to me like she she just spoke to a slightly clueless staff member? Who I'm sure has had an absolute roasting after this.

Maybe I'm being harsh ... it just seems to me if your going to highlight the "single sex spaces" debate there are much bigger battles to choose.

She’s being so over dramatic about it. I have very long hair and go to the hairdressers. When I had a flat top (number 2 all over) I went to the barbers. I know the first time I went in they said they didn’t do women’s hair, but when I said what I wanted, they were happy to do it.

I'm a barber, woman and business owner.
I do cut women's hair as I trained as a hairdresser first and have many female customers in my shop.
My coworker who only trained as a barber doesn't feel confident in cutting women's hair, fringes, etc.

Why should any business owner take on a client they don't want? Barbering and hairdressing are not the same. Men have the right to male spaces. She's a daft mare.

I think a previous poster also touched on how in some countries (I've noticed this often in Italy for example) a barbers is often a social meeting for men.

There is a very very simple answer to this.

For the 20 mins it takes to get her haircut Karen should identify as a man. He could then get his haircut and no one would dare question him lest they get accused of being transphobic.

I experienced this. Thought I would try a barbers because overall they seem to cut short hair better, I think, as it's what they do most of. Got turned away. Does peeve me a bit, as find it hard to get a good cut in a ladies salon.

Hi

(New here)

It says:

If you run a beauty-related business and want to provide separate services for men and women or a single-sex service for men or women only, then you need to be able to objectively justify providing your service in this way. You must meet other conditions as well, such as that a joint service would be less effective, or that men’s needs and women’s needs are different.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/equality-law-hairdressers-barbers-and-beauty-salons

Oh and that's the other thing they are much cheaper!

Reminds me of the time I went into a barbers in the 90s and asked for a no.4 all over. They told me they couldn’t do it because “women’s hair is different to men’s hair”