Child with Asperger’s taken into care, parents won’t give hormones

[JessicaWakefieldSVH]

This is another article about a child given a child protection order, because his parents wouldn’t allow him to take hormones as advised by the NHS clinic. This is really scary to me as I have a teen with late diagnosis of ASD who also self harmed and is gender non-conforming. Thankfully I had raised her to fight strongly against gender stereotypes and she has never had any issues around her sex or ‘gender identity’, but teachers have sent her to the doctor without telling me before because they saw her ritualistic eating and assumed she had an eating disorder. I feel so sorry for these parents. Imagine being told by your school, your kid isn’t coming home because you won’t give him hormones and let him change his sex- at 15!!

Having the autism assessment really opened my eyes to how little people, including professionals, understand it. How many autistic children are going to be sterilised due to this? Is anyone else worried??

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6817935/Autistic-boy-taken-care-school-reports-parents-refusing-allow-sex-change-treatment.html

Following with interest. My ASD adult DD has been identifying as male for over 2 years. ASD only diagnosed after the gender change (which was out of the blue). My only comfort is that the waiting list for adult gender services is really long, it can stretch til the next century as far as I am concerned. Her ability to anticipate the future impact of decisions taken now are way behind most young adults her age - I am talking about all sorts of decisions, not just those which may lead to sterility. I can totally see how those parents were terrified for their son and withdrew him from the clinic.

Femalepersonator how can you say there is no link when kids with ASD are 7 times more likely to identify as trans?

For the social workers plopping onto this thread to tell parents that the Daily Mail report is wrong, here's a scathing court judgement that details the harm that can be done to a child when social workers follow an ideology and totally fail to protect a child from harm:

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

Please read it.

@truthisarevolutionaryact

As a gender critical woman and social worker I have read that entire judgement already. That is a 7 year old child. Completely different to a 15 year old.

Let me explain further if I haven't been clear enough.

Children can come into care either by legal order or parental agreement (s20). It is totally illegal to use s20 to coerce parents to allow their children to be removed without an order. It used to happen; local authorities have been hammered including large fines for doing this; they no longer do.

For a child to be removed by order there is a legal threshold of significant harm that must be met. There are no legal precedents for a child being removed by order due to parents refusing to transition the child. In my (fairly experienced) opinion this could not meet the threshold by itself. There would need to be clear evidence of harm and failing to validate gender is Not It.

For a teenager to be made subject to a care order they would need to be completely beyond parental control OR experiencing a massive level of harm in their parent's' care. Being prostituted for example, or supplied with drugs, or something similarly heinous. We just don't go to court for teenagers if the teenager a) would refuse to go into foster care and b) the level of harm is manageable. It sounds callous but it's true. The only teenager I ever went to court for was to get a secure order to put them in a secure unit.

It is simply not realistic that a local authority would have gone to court to remove a teenager because the parents wouldn't trans them. They couldn't remove the child against the parents wishes without an order. It's highly illegal and cannot happen. The parents must have agreed to the child being accommodated; which tells me there must be some other issues, the child may be violent, or out of parental control, going missing regularly or similar. The local authority will also almost certainly be working to get the child home. Foster care is incredibly expensive and never ever a first option for teenagers.

Sarah philimore is a family lawyer who is extremely knowledgeable (used to post on mumsnet as spero) she's also gender critical. If you follow her on twitter she is probably already discussing this case - if not, ask her what she thinks.

It is simply not realistic that a local authority would have gone to court to remove a teenager because the parents wouldn't trans them

So you don't believe it happened, but you can't prove it hasn't, because as you have said, things have happened before.

If you actually read the article, you will see that this child was NOT "taken into care". There were no orders made, and no Court proceedings. There wasn't even a s20 agreement.

The parents AGREED to the child staying with a friend, (which suggests that the issue was a breakdown in the family relationship).

Now it may very well be that the school and SWs were at fault, and over-zealous or uber woke, but because the parents (possibly understandably) took this evasive action. We don't know if treatment ensued. We do know the child protection plan was discharged.

cannot happen

It'll never happen, eh?
Apart from the fact that it does and it is.

I suspect it's because the "treatment" they will be put on will stop them being able to reproduce.I wouldn't put it passed those in power to be using this as a way to "thin out" undesirables

It's hard not to see malign influences behind an ideology which encourages the sterilisation of children, when two of the most over-represented groups of children amongst those who are identifying as trans are autistic children and children who might grow up to be gay or lesbian.

Foster care is incredibly expensive and never ever a first option for teenagers.

The child wasn't in foster care; they went to live with a relative. So I don't think there necessarily would have been other issues in this case.

The Guidance around Transgender children is basically to cut them off from their family, in schools it's all about affirmation and not letting the parents know.

This would be just another step in that.

After the boy told the school he had been barred from treatment, a teacher told his parents that they should find alternative accommodation for their son or else he would be put into temporary foster care. And the school reported the couple to children’s services for being ‘emotionally abusive’ to their son by not supporting his wish to change gender.

So if I put myself in their situation, I would be very scared and worried. I’d want to avoid foster care happening. So I think that’s why they agreed for their child to be placed with a friend. I don’t think you can conclude it’s because of other issues, clearly a family breakdown but from the parents perspective, that’s because they wouldn’t allow him to take hormones. If we consider the reports about Tavistock recently, which included concerns about trans lobbyists & threats of ‘agree or they’ll commit suicide’ etc then I think it’s reasonable to conclude that parents are in fact being pressured to agree to things under pressure, not because they believe it’s best for their child.

They couldn't remove the child against the parents wishes without an order. It's highly illegal and cannot happen

It'll never happen, eh?
Apart from the fact that it does and it is.

If a child is removed by a local authority without a lawful order, then I would expect an immediate application to the High Court for wardship. And I would expect the Judge to tear the Local Authority's head of children's services a new one. It is no more lawful for SS to take your kid than it would for the milk man.

There’s a lot of frustrations regarding professional attitudes to autism and lack of understanding mentioned by these parents, that I can identify with.

It is no more lawful for SS to take your kid than it would for the milk man.

MrsBertBibby

Did you actually read the article?

Of course. I'm a family law solicitor.

Of course. I'm a family law solicitor

Good, then you recognise coercion.

Where do you see in the article that the child was removed by social workers?

Where do you see in the article that the child was removed by social workers?

I don't which is why i asked if you'd read it, you are going on about something that hasn't happened.

My reading is that the parents were sufficiently terrified to agree to the child's placement with friends possibly to avoid any risk of him being taken into care.

I can understand the feeling of helplessness in the face of this ideology which has permeated so many professional organisations.

As I parent I am scared of the specialist NHS service we have been referred to but I'm also scared to not take my kid there. It is hard to explain the feeling that there are malign influences over my vulnerable child. Not in the places you would expect like YouTube and Tumblr but in the NHS.

Gerry I just read those screen shots, thanks. Wow.

you are going on about something that hasn't happened.

No, I am correcting those who seem to think that is what happened.

When I go to school there are posters about ‘sisters not cisters’ Etc

Whenever I start thinking that teachers won't swallow all this trans nonsense I see something like this.

But are there also posters demanding that transmen are accepted as men? Somehow I think I know the answer to that.

Good, then you recognise coercion.

I generally don't assume things like that unless I have all the available facts. Which, of course, none of us do.

I generally don't assume things like that unless I have all the available facts.

In general can you recognise coercion?