Grayson Perry irks me

[everythingisbetterafteranap]

Not sure if I'm going to articulate this well, so bear with me.

I was reading a Guardian article on a therapist who is married to the artist Grayson Perry. Reasonably interesting article with a focus on self awareness as a parent.

But it got me thinking again on why so many bright, intelligent women so readily accept men dressing up as women in such a garish pantoesque way. Where is the feminist critique of this?

Grayson Perry has his alter ego 'Claire' who looks like the silliest version of female you could find. Why is this acceptable and not challenged? Would Grayson Perry be lauded for having a black alter ego with big lips and exaggerated gestures? There is even an annual 'let's dress Claire' competition at St Martins art college. Why aren't the students there questioning this?

What is this really all about? It doesn't feel female empowering to me.

I've never ever seen it as that for him everything.

Unfortunately for certain (non art school) people it is.

this one which is underlain by a clear strain of really nasty misogyny about older women.

That's just not the case. He's not a misogynist. Have a look at the work he does. He is trying to dismantle masculinity.

I think in general people should be discouraged from acting out their sexual fetishes in public.

Agree 100% but am yet to be convinced that this is what Grayson Perry is doing. I don't know what he does in private, but when he dresses as Claire in public it always seems to be as a comment on masculinity, a way of disarming an audience, an elaboration of a contrast between expectations and reality, or a particular and purposeful persona, rather than for sexual enjoyment.

I’m not saying he is a misogynist. I’m not commenting on his critique of masculinity. I’m commenting on the fact that he’s acting out his sexual fetish in public. I don’t consider it appropriate and I consider the nature of his fetish to originate in nasty misogyny.

@sackrifice , nice try but you've spelt her name wrong!

And there is a long history of men dressing like a pantomime dame. It’s not disarming. It’s ridiculous. It’s not threatening to traditional masculinity because it is such a nonsense parody of ‘the female’ that it reinforces the misogynist view of sexual hierarchy - in the eyes of men, he is demeaning or lowering himself to our level. That’s what a pantomime dame is.

I am so bored of male artists getting so much public indulgence with this trite nonsense.

I’m not saying he is a misogynist. I’m not commenting on his critique of masculinity. I’m commenting on the fact that he’s acting out his sexual fetish in public. I don’t consider it appropriate and I consider the nature of his fetish to originate in nasty misogyny.

Yep, I got your point the first time. And my response is above. To wit: I think you're completely wrong about nasty misogyny and I am yet to see any evidence that he is acting out a sexual fetish in public.

I agree with the OP. I realise that he has some insightful things to say about masculinity, but the Claire persona makes me uncomfortable. I also dislike the fact that we’re supposed to be grateful he’s on our side.

Ellobrian do you know anything about Grayson Perry or just seen pictures of him dressed up? I don't recognise anything you're saying here, at all. I would be very interested in seeing some links/evidence to back up your views here, because everything I've seen and read of his leads me to opposite conclusions.

Sorry but in what way is the way he dresses a sexual fetish? I don’t see it when I look at him. I’ve never seen or read anything from him that remotely looks like misogyny.

Again, women don’t own femininity. Shouldn’t we welcome a man breaking free of gender stereotypes? He also specifically uses the word sex and gender accurately.

Pam, I think you should have your comment re Challenors removed. I’m pretty upset someone compared him to a convicted pedophile.

I've ordered his book. £6.53 on Amazon if anyone is interested.

If someone has a feminist book to recommend on transvestism or men dressing as women that would be enlightening then I'd welcome that.

Again, women don’t own femininity. Shouldn’t we welcome a man breaking free of gender stereotypes? He also specifically uses the word sex and gender accurately.

Well said.

Mammoon

He admits this himself. www.bigissue.com/interviews/letter-to-my-younger-self/grayson-perry-daily-mail-facilitated-sexual-fetish/

There's tons of evidence in the form of articles he contributes to talking about his sexual fetish.

I am deeply uncomfortable with men like GP expressing their sexual fetishes in such a public manner.

This. No matter how "art school" it might be, or how considered, sexual fetishes should not be for the public domain.

I like Grayson Perry a great deal.

Pam, I think you should have your comment re Challenors removed. I’m pretty upset someone compared him to a convicted pedophile.

This too.

women don’t own femininity. Shouldn’t we welcome a man breaking free of gender stereotypes?

THIS ^

I'm so surprised to hear so many people have taken against him. Will definitely consider what you've said and check out the links you provide, but equally I hope you'll read his book or watch his documentaries, as I think there's a whole other side to this that you're not seeing.

If it is a sexual fetish, is the excitement from the male toxic reaction, or women's discomfort? And does it matter if there is a difference?

He admits this himself.

That interview only says he's a transvestite (which we already knew!!)

I don’t feel uncomfortable seeing him dress as Claire. I find it fun and refreshing. He isn’t trying to be like me or offend me. He is expressing a part of his personality which he is entitled to do freely.

I know exactly what you mean Trousering. Perry has publicly admitted that it's a fetish and he enjoys the humiliation, so when he turns up as Claire, people who work with him are participants in his fetish. In that sense I don't see any difference between Perry and someone like Bunce, other than the fact that Perry doesn't dress up his fetish with bullshit about 'gender fluidity' or coerce others into pretending that he is a woman. But in terms of the transgenderism debate, the Grayson Perrys aren't a problem, and I don't think their behaviour can be 'policed' - but it shouldn't be celebrated either.

I think GP is a sound bloke and a thoughtful artist.

Wrt your overall point though op, I agree about the "hideous parody" aspects of drag queens. There's an unspoken misogyny there.

Has GP answered questions about that? I'd be interested to know what he said on the subject.

It's a difficult one. I found Lily Savage and Les Dawson funny at the time they were performing. So the (age old) question is, at what point does humour tip over in to being offensive? Would Les Dawson's mother-in-law act be deemed offensive nowadays? I've no doubt I would find some aspects of it extremely sexist (especially as I am a fat middle aged woman with a large bust myself now ).

Hopefully we are moving towards humour that is more aware and nuanced, but in some ways, while comics have become more politically correct, for reasons I don't entirely understand, out there in the real world, sexism has got even worse.

I have read his book, and seen his work. I've read his explanations of his autogyneaphilia.

How is this "taking against him"? He has explained all this himself.

This is the problem isn't it? Men we like can't be judged as behaving inappropriately, the women saying it's inappropriate are "taking against" them. They are in the wrong. Give a fetishist an MBE or a woman's award and women who complain are "taking against" them.

He's told us exactly what he's doing. Believe him.

"Fame has come with costs. For him, part of the appeal of cross-dressing is the sexual kick. “Humiliation is a massive turn-on,” he says. “One of the things it’s ruined for me is that I’m no longer the anonymous pervert walking down the street. Before it was quite fun being the weirdo everyone stared at. Now I’m Grayson Perry. [The public] are not going to shout ‘fucking poof’, they’re more likely to say: ‘Oh, it’s Grayson Perry, mate, like on the TV’.”

amp.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/dec/14/grayson-perry-im-no-longer-the-anonymous-pervert-walking-down-the-street

There used to be an arts quiz show called ‘Gallery’ in the 1980s hosted by George Melly. Artist Maggi Hambling was a regular guest - she always wore ‘masculine’ suits & ties/cravats etc. On at least one occasion she sported a stuck-on moustache, which apparently freaked the producer out. At around 12 years of age I found her slightly unnerving, but completely fascinating as well. By 16 I was following her example & wearing men’s 1940s suits & shoes...minus a moustache!

At first I think Perry’s ‘Claire’ outfits irked me a bit, but on a purely visual level isn’t he simply fucking with our expectations of what men ”should” look like, in the same way that Maggi was?