Grayson Perry irks me

[everythingisbetterafteranap]

Not sure if I'm going to articulate this well, so bear with me.

I was reading a Guardian article on a therapist who is married to the artist Grayson Perry. Reasonably interesting article with a focus on self awareness as a parent.

But it got me thinking again on why so many bright, intelligent women so readily accept men dressing up as women in such a garish pantoesque way. Where is the feminist critique of this?

Grayson Perry has his alter ego 'Claire' who looks like the silliest version of female you could find. Why is this acceptable and not challenged? Would Grayson Perry be lauded for having a black alter ego with big lips and exaggerated gestures? There is even an annual 'let's dress Claire' competition at St Martins art college. Why aren't the students there questioning this?

What is this really all about? It doesn't feel female empowering to me.

So yes he is wearing what he wants but it is an erotic sex act.

He willingly admits that cross-dressing turns him on. I don't mind him (although I see your point OP), as far as I know he doesn't impose his fetish on women by using women's toilets etc like some other self-identifying transvestites do.

Izzard used to be like that “these aren’t women’s clothes, they’re MY clothes” but unfortunately he’s drunk the kool aid now

Izard is not a cool guy. Don’t like him (her??) anymore.

Yep (otherwise it'd be matronising).

Ha!

I'm afraid I'm wondering whether @GoFiguire is one of the Perrys. Probably unimaginative of me.

Isn't GP quite clear that he's a transvestite?

He dresses as his own fetish
So yes he is wearing what he wants but it is an erotic sex act

Is that acceptable though? Imagine if everyone dressed as their fetish and went to work. It's just like a big klaxon "I'm horny! I want to inflict my fetish on everyone else, that turns me on!"

It's a bit weird tbh.

@Weetabixandshreddies

It's the Panto extreme version of being a female that I find uncomfortable. Like someone else said, that Les Dawson or Dick Emery version of a woman - the over the top makeup and 'feminine' clothing.

Why don't men explore their 'blackness' in the same way? Is it because they would be highly criticised for it but that women are fair game?

Oh um... well I’ve got heaps of artist friends, and many males who dress up like this and variations of it. I never got the impression they were parodying women, just trying to break free of the restrictive expectations of how men should dress. I had loads of fun dressing up crazy with them, just as much as my female friends. I’m not sure why anyone would be bothered by it tbh

Femininity doesn’t belong to women though, they can play around with it too.

sackrifice
Yeah I thnk you could be right. Early feminist outrage! My Dad had 4 sisters and i had great relationships with them all. They were very strong women, maternal and protective of me and certainly not just a bunch of old gossips!

Yep, just checked. He makes sense to me.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=yLVFMAOb9Cg

He may be on our side tbh but doesn't want the hassle.

I heard him being interviewed by Nihal Arthanayake on his afternoon 5Live show and they were talking about 'being controversial' and Grayson Perry said something along the lines of 'there is something being talked about that I don't want to get involved with because it is a toxic debate'. Nihal kept pressing him to say what it was but Grayson just kept saying no because he knew there would be 'a lot of anger' thrown at him.

I did wonder myself at that moment because they had been talking about him dressing up as Claire (and his reasons for doing it).

He did some excellent documentaries that seem to be banned in this country! Well you can access them in the EU and not here. He tackles the idea that somehow dressing as a woman makes you a woman.

Let people dress how they want.

Greyson is very open about how he's a man.

I think he speaks a lot of sense. I spent most of my youth "dressed as a man" and no one batted an eyelid really. Well not much. Fuck clothing stereotypes.

everythingisbetterafteranap

But by saying it's an extreme version of being female or saying that he wears feminine clothing or make up you are reinforcing a stereotype of saying this is what women look like or dress like, surely?

If a woman wears trousers, shirt and tie what does that mean?

We should all be free to wear whatever we want. How are there male or female clothes?

I don't think there's anything wrong in being a transvestite-which us what he is.
You can be pro single sex provision without being puritanical!
He's a fantastic artist, I love him.

It's the Panto extreme version of being a female that I find uncomfortable. Like someone else said, that Les Dawson or Dick Emery version of a woman - the over the top makeup and 'feminine' clothing.

I get you but he also wears stuff like this, so isn't he just generally wacky/over the top and seen as such.

I think he's great. Have you read his book, "The Descent of Man"? It's excellent. He states explicitly that dressing in women's clothes doesn't make him a woman and that it would be insulting if he assumed he understood anything about the female experience just because he dresses up. His documentaries on manhood and masculinity are extremely well worth watching.

It's also worth considering that as an artist, his way of dressing as his alter ego is a public statement about masculinity and a form of artistic expression. I think he's a really interesting artist and I find it completely refreshing that he does not pretend to be a woman in any way whatsoever. I'm a fan.

Come on @GoFiguire what do you mean in your first post?

Of course there are male and female clothes, broadly speaking.
Doesn't mean people can't cross dress. It also doesn't change your sex when you do.

I object to narcissistic males encroaching on women’s spaces and opportunities. I don’t see that with Grayson Perry. I don’t see his art or how he lives his public life as a men’s rights campaign.
Well, not as the kind of men’s rights campaign that is destructive for women.

I think he’s thought a lot about the problems of masculinity for men and talking about it in a public way which is welcome. A different kind of campaigning that’s probably very positive for some men.

There is plenty of feminist critique of drag / transvestism, not sure why you think otherwise.

If you are saying why don't feminists single out GP personally for criticism I think that's a different question and a silly one tbh why attack one individual? Rather than critique a behaviour that is practiced by lots of people.

Anyway in general GP seems like one of the good guys, I read a super long article he wrote about toxic masculinity, it was interesting articulate and to me fascinating to read what a male, one who is a bit of an outsider to male norms, makes of it all.

I think he’s a really interesting, thoughtful, insightful artist. With a nuanced and progressive take on gender politics. Have heard him give a lecture a couple of times (dressed as Claire) and it was just great. I have no doubt that he’s gender critical (while compassionate towards the vast majority of trans people as opposed to trans activists) but doesn’t want to step into this awful debate. Which is a shame because I think he’d be great but anyone sentient can probably figure out what he thinks.

mammoon thank you, I’m going to get that book!