Grayson Perry irks me

[everythingisbetterafteranap]

Not sure if I'm going to articulate this well, so bear with me.

I was reading a Guardian article on a therapist who is married to the artist Grayson Perry. Reasonably interesting article with a focus on self awareness as a parent.

But it got me thinking again on why so many bright, intelligent women so readily accept men dressing up as women in such a garish pantoesque way. Where is the feminist critique of this?

Grayson Perry has his alter ego 'Claire' who looks like the silliest version of female you could find. Why is this acceptable and not challenged? Would Grayson Perry be lauded for having a black alter ego with big lips and exaggerated gestures? There is even an annual 'let's dress Claire' competition at St Martins art college. Why aren't the students there questioning this?

What is this really all about? It doesn't feel female empowering to me.

Thank @mammoon for the book recommendation. I'll order it as I do want to understand his position more.

In these times of increased women hating, I'm just more sensitive as to how men continually define what being a woman is and looks like. Still not sure I'm comfortable with dressing as his version of a woman for sexual thrills isn't another male level of objectification of women as sexual playthings, but reading his book might also address this.

I like him. As stephscaddy says, he is very clear that he is a man who cross dresses. He knows that his alter ego Claire (not sure if this is the correct word, apologies if it isn't) is a stereotype rather than saying this is the right way to be a woman. He and Phillipa Perry come across as a couple who support and value each other. Found this interview in which he talks about ageing, cross dressing and identity. It's quite old so his views may have changed.

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZv-nlqPfgAhVNzoUKHejDDqQQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fartanddesign%2F2014%2Foct%2F04%2Fgrayson-perry-dress-tranny-art-who-are-you-tv&psig=AOvVaw0MRVKX-r-4-YRoZr34vrfd&ust=1552298531740528

He did post, quite recently, a Tweet of him dressed as a women in the men’s Loos. He stated he would never enter a ladies loo just because he had a dress on.

I like him, his programmes on Masculinity are very good.

What is the difference between transvestites like Perry and a male banking executive who wants to be treated as a woman on Wednesdays and Thursdays and happily accepts a place on a list of 100 top business women (and calls women who objected to his nomination 'terfs')?
I don't think it's gender identity.

DoctoressPlague the difference is he is NOT asking to be treated like a woman, he does not consider himself a woman, he does not invade women’s spaces or seek our positions. He’s simply dressing feminine. Women don’t own femininity and I am puzzled as to why anyone would take issue with the way a man chooses to dress. That’s all it is.

I like Perry's work a lot, and think he's an intelligent, coherent artist who I really respect for his ceramics. But I agree with OP to some extent.

For years I've thought his Claire persona has nothing to do with a female nature in him. It's more like a child's toy that he identifies with. A dolly. He has a toy fixation anyway; his guru is his teddy bear from childhood, Alan Measles, who he has built a portable temple for.

I wish he'd examine what Claire really is in a more honest way. He has mentioned (in passing) that Claire isn't really his female self, but his ostentatious, liberated creative self, and he knows 'she' isn't female in any meaningful sense that a woman could relate to.

But I haven't come across evidence that he gives much thought or importance to how damaging it is to women to see transvestites perpetually parody and ridicule us. Blacking up isn't acceptable. I'm not sure why baby-dolling is. Perry's childhood was horrendous. He's still working it through.

Still not sure I'm comfortable with dressing as his version of a woman for sexual thrills

I agree with that, but my understanding is that his "alter ego" is more of an artistic creation than a private sexual fantasy and not really "his version of a woman" as he doesn't claim any kind of definition of womanhood or do anything to suggest that's how he sees women. He doesn't tend to talk about the sexual nature of dressing up as Claire, but about what it says in terms of masculinity. As someone else said, he's kind of a campaigner for men's rights, in the sense of opening up maleness beyond stereotypical masculinity. I'm not saying there's not a sexual element for him; he is a transvestite and it's a sexual fetish as I understand it. But I think more importantly, he is an artist, and he uses this mode of dressing as a form of artistic performance and a way to undermine masculinity.

If you can find them, I really recommend his documentaries on being a man. He goes into various hyper-masculine environments and produces art work in response. They are really, really good. I think he's a tremendous artist too. I've seen some of his ceramics work up close and they are just amazing.

Yep @JessicaWakefieldSVH, Perry does not demand that he IS a woman and does not go after women's rights and spaces.

@mammoon

Thank you for that. Very insightful and helpful. His ceramics are amazing.

I was at art school when the tide and fashion parade started to turn. It was well accepted you just wore what you wanted at fund raising parties and it became quite competitive but there was definitely a thing that you also had to look cutting edge on a daily basis. Might have also just been students generally though.

I went intending to wear only jeans, leggings, dms and big jumpers and found it hard to suddenly be in that fashion show. After the first year though yes, you were generally covered in acid splashes, plaster and all manner of toxic substances.

I don't get queer theory because imo artists have always messed about with clothing.

I find his art extremely good though. I guess I've started to look at his outfits with a little more critical thought. I don't know enough about him to make a judgement.

I'll just use this opportunity to promote Art Activist Barbie on twitter again though shining a light on sexism in art. Not sure she's gone near him yet though...

Challenors?

I take issue with how a man chooses to dress when it's a sex act. Perry admits it is. He was on Have I got news for you recently. There were five people working. One of them was overtly engaged in a sexual activity. For the other four this may or may not be unwanted sexual conduct. Did anyone ask for consent?

Exactly Jessica. Men like Perry who respect the boundaries aren't a problem.

I do remember a woman who must’ve been early 20s who would wear the same dress every year on her birthday - since she was tiny (so it was more of a vest by the time I met her!) that was ‘art achool’.

Jeans with (genuine) singe marks and paint splashes - ‘art school’.
Mad jewellery that you had made yourself - ‘art school’.
Mad haircut that your mate did - ‘art school’.
Tantrumming because males can’t use the women’s loos NOT art school.

The behaviour and the attitude?

So unwanted sexual conduct is OK if it's polite?

I don't have a problem with Grayson Perry.
I don't have a problem with Philippa Perry either.

The behaviour and the attitude?

So unwanted sexual conduct is OK if it's polite?

What?

Sexual assault or harassment comes under "behaviour".

@Trousering

That's a valid point too. If someone is dressing knowingly for their sexual fetish, is it appropriate for that to be in a workplace or imposed on others without consent?

I don't know enough about the fetish side and getting kicks from it. But I wouldn't like a man to be dressing provocatively as a woman in front of me to get a sexual thrill in a workplace where I can't express my discontent. That would be awful. Is that the motive behind this though? To make women feel uncomfortable for a kick? From those who have read into it, it doesn't sound like it.

I can't help thinking about the Challenors when I look at Grayson Perry.

This is a deeply unfair statement. I’m sad to see someone on a feminist board do that.

I've googled and still can't see Challoners. What is it?

Google has Grammer schools listed

I am deeply uncomfortable with men like GP expressing their sexual fetishes in such a public manner. Particularly this one which is underlain by a clear strain of really nasty misogyny about older women.

I think in general people should be discouraged from acting out their sexual fetishes in public. He can do what he wants in private (however misogynist I think it is) but I don’t think it’s healthy for society that men feel so comfortable being so explicitly sexually extreme in public. It’s somethinf our society should challenge more, it has all sorts of worrying implications in terms of building a culture of sexual consent and so on.

It's a very dysfunctional family, OP, containing two transwomen, one of whom is a convicted child abuser.