Science of sports issue to be discussed on radio 4 now

[EweSurname]

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

Another pathetically grateful person here too. I heard it by accident - just came into the kitchen, switched on the radio, and heard Nick Robinson introduce the item. When I heard there were two scientists on, one of whom was an adviser to the IOC, I assumed they were aiming for some fake "balance" but no, for once, we had two scientists coolly, clearly and calmly articulating the advantages male athletes have over female athletes. They completely destroyed McKinnon's arguments with the bare facts. Well done, BBC - for once.

I haven't listened to the interview, but if the available experts on sports science happen to be men then it's correct that they were the people in this discussion.

@BarbarianMum - "What has it come to though when we are all ecstatic about R4 broadcasting a commonly accepted biological reality? This isnt new science, I learnt this at school."
Totally agree. It's a total load bollox that's has to be stopped.

And R McK needs to stop being given airtime in general. Pathetic, cheating arsehole who talks absolute shit, and tries to destroy women's sport while calling themselves a 'lady,' signified by wearing a pale pink cardigan and a string of giant pearls. Why is their voice so important? Ugh.

Happy International Women's Day all!

It must have been hard for the BBC to track down that Emeritus Professor adviser to the ioc and hormones expert before today, doncha think?

This deserves some feedback;

www.bbc.co.uk/faqs/comment_appreciation

Why do the BBC keep bringing RM on. Do they not do any research on who they have on at all?

They just seem to be a willing tool in RM bulshitting - I wouldn't be surprised if it was just an exercise to see how far you can go. Today has peddled so much bullshit on this subject, and seem to have fallen for the queer theory bollox hook, line and sinker, so are ripe for the picking, to mix metaphors .

And they are a 'flagship' programme. (another one there )

Yes I'm now feeling angry.

Angry That I feel grateful.

Angry that I feel relieved.

This should be obvious.

Angry that I actually don't feel able to post openly about this due to work.

We've been played.

I didn't like the sign off, though. The reference to International Women's Day. Almost like they were throwing us a bone, just for today.

Exactly

I haven't listened to the interview, but if the available experts on sports science happen to be men then it's correct that they were the people in this discussion.
TBH it could have been refuted by any biology teacher, but it takes someone this high up in the field to state the obvious, because alternative realities have been given so much credence everywhere and air time.

How is the cyclist going to refute 2 actual scientists

Will they both be hounded and called transphobic ?

Agree with everyone that we shouldn't have to feel grateful for this.

But it comes to something when reporting proper science on The BBC's flagship news programme is a surprise.

Well done both speakers.

Finally...why did it take so long though

Brilliant, thanks for the heads up, I am still listening to it.
Saying what everyone already knows, that males will always have an advantage, because of what started in the womb, increased at puberty and does not simply disappear after transitioning.

It struck me that it was three men discussing women's sports too but I'm still agog that the two "opposing" sides (I'm assuming as this is usually the format) agreed on everything, the upshot of which was that the current guidelines are not fair to women.

You're right EweSurname and I suspect that the BBC, being utterly craven in this, is adopting a policy of one day the theme can be "yay! trans! best thing ever/most oppressed ever!" and then another day it can be "hmmm, I'm not sure of this". In the hope of never having to referee a proper discussion in which there's disagreement and thus a risk of the BBC being seen to support a non-progressive side.

It is rather as if they've devoted lots of air time to someone arguing that the earth is flat, and then someone else arguing that the earth is round, and then finally they do an interview with two very prestigious scientists who confirm that yes, indeed, the earth is round. The whole thing is beyond batshit, but this is where we're at, unfortunately.

Prof Brewer is a Sports Scientist, Prof Hughes is a paediatric endocrinologist and a emeritus professor of paediatrics at the University of Cambridge. Hughes is most notable for long-standing research into disorders of sex development (DSD), established one of the largest and most comprehensive databases of cases of DSD including publishing the Consensus on DSD management framework which, barely eight years after its publication, is now already accepted worldwide as the framework for care of patients and families with DSD. Wikipedia

So two different disciplines both saying the same thing.

How is the cyclist going to refute 2 actual scientists

McK will just bellow "I'm a Doctor" repeatedly

We've been played.

I think so too. The BBC have made us feel pathetically grateful, they've pretended they've done balance, and they've evaded responsibility to advance the discussion in a contentious area.

feedback sent

Agree it was excellent although thought that again one of them said XY when he meant XX but that may have been me mishearing the sentence as driving not him. Really pleased there was no pseudo science presented as science for "balance" and they stressed that non elite but still competitive men can beat elite women if they transition.

Sharron has also posted this link to a ny times article on the IAAF new rules.

twitter.com/sharrond62/status/1103916123337056258?s=20

I’ve pointed out to the BBC that the discussion today is long overdue, but on the whole I am still of the view that it was another step forward. We’re not home yet though.

Will they both be hounded and called transphobic?

Don't be daft. They are men.

So those interviews made my day! Pathetically happy for some scientific discussion on the topic.

I’ve lived every moment of my life knowing men have a physical advantage over me, we need to for survival.

Happy International Women’s Day!