Paula Radcliffe will be on the Today programme at 7.30

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BBC Radio 4 Today
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Today: Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge (0710) questions whether she was misled by Jeremy Corbyn, something his office strongly denies; Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt on the Yemen conflict (0810); and marathon great Paula Radcliffe on transgender athletics (0730) #r4Today

I thought it was ok. Speaking out on this must be horrendously stressful. She got some good points in and the bit about Rachel's facts was fabulous.

To state again, Paula Radcliffe has the fastest marathon time by a woman, 2 hours 15 min 25 seconds. A man ran a time around that to break the men’s world record in 1958. But I’m sure Paula will be told there is no difference between men and women in sport and women just haven’t been trying for the last 60 years . Then I’m sure Paula will be told that hormone treatment reduces performance to put trans women [men] and women on a level playing field and it would be completely fair if any of the hundreds of Kenyan men who run quicker than 2:15 for fun did so. Then we will try and figure out if McKinnon wants to reduce testosterone or not because McKinnon can’t seem to decide which is a more important argument at the moment.

This whole issue is increasingly becoming about Rachel McKinnon having a tantrum and the grown ups having to calmly explain why RM shouldn't be given her own way.

After every interview I'm sure it's completely obvious to the entire nation why RM shouldn't be given her own way, but still interviewees have to painstakingly explain (while avoiding all the trigger words, obvs - such as 'men', 'male' etc.)

Well it started with another heap of Shitology from from the BBC. Including Navratilova has ‘apologised’ for using the word cheat. And some ridiculous quote from McK about no one being born as a man.

Paula always sounds nervous, even when she doing her commentating job, it’s just the way she speaks.

However she’s very well respected and liked and for someone like her to speak out about this, is bloody fantastic.

I guess RK refused to go on so they played that old clip. A clip that really shows up RK. Excellent.

I liked the interview style. We had key issues raised via questions: IOC rule batshittery; RK claims about transwomen vs women being a level playing field; surgery unnecessary; separation of DSD.

Brilliant Paula. Nervous but correct.

Pointed out RM's self interest. Well she would say that wouldn't she.

Was also prepared to break down the biology. It's obvious that she knows her stuff.

The point about the small clip from McK, is that 99.999999% of the listeners, would have been disagreeing with what they said.

She was very fair, very polite and rather brave too - can't believe in the USA some states allow self declaring with no meds.

I loved how they got in the idea of it being cheating by reporting that Navratilova apologised for saying cheating. The vast majority of the audience will believe it to be cheating too. My immediate reaction to them reporting Martina's apology rather than her main argument was WTF BBC, followed rapidly by clever, clever, you newly brain-engaged people in BBC

Good one Paula

I think she spoke quietly but well. It's a minefield, but she came across as respectful and concerned.

McKinnon just comes across as a complete dick. They were born a male and didn't transition till after adulthood. Semantics saying "no one was born a man" arrghhh

I do think McKinnon takes hormone suppressants though, they don't want too, they feel that because they ARE a woman, that testosterone is actually a female hormone? I think I've heard them argue along those lines?

Another rushed and underprepared Today Prog interview. Martha did not seem to know what Paula meant by DSD, never contexualising it as the Semenya case. Paula herself was uncharacteristically muddled, at one point appearing to say lowered testosterone was enough but then recognising the physiological advantages of growing up male.

Her dismissal of McFibber was majestic though: She may be arguing from the point of view of self-interest.

I’d have liked Paula to be stronger on the fact that just reducing testosterone isn’t enough, at times she seemed to suggest it was, at others it was a route towards fairness, when really fairness = no male bodies in female sport - but well done to her for speaking up at all.

Paula

If someone refused to debate live then it should be stated clearly. If that was the case here.

Paula sounded nervous and I think she missed some points (male agtleted having a longer shelf life on average - so you will get a mid 40s person on a team of teen/20s women).

She commented that the cyclist hasn’t had any medical/drug intervention. Is that true?

I am very glad Paula is speaking out, I have huge respect for her, and even more glad that this issue is finally getting airtime, but I think that was a bit of a missed opportunity.
It would have been useful to explain to listeners why we haven’t yet seen transgender athletes in the Olympics in particular (as in the rules being changed since the last ones). I would also have had no mention of DSDs as it just muddies the waters.
I fear the public will just become more confused given that they are not as immersed in the nuances of this as many of us are.

Paula

I wandered into the daily mirror (off for a shower now) and there seems to be a few pro trans (even pre teens) stories on there - all fairy stories. Like Cinderella or Snow White. All ‘I liked dolls...’ and one mum who said her 8 year old boy said ‘I’m now Mary, I’m not Bill use my correct pronouns’ (which 8 year old talks like that?). Not like nightmare on elm street at all.

I think she did well, considering.

I would really like all the athletes to just keep saying 'it isn't about testosterone, it is about bodies that have been through male puberty having advantage of X, Y and Z' and not get side-tracked.

Oh my goodness they are going to discuss if there is a difference between men's and women's brains!

I forget what time they said the blue/pink brain bit will be on.

I saw McKinnon described somewhere as the Peak Trans Sherpa, carrying the masses right up to the top

She did get some important points across, and gave some good examples e.g. about the Connecticut school athletes. I felt she overcomplicated it, though. She referred to DSD a few times without spelling it out - most people won't know what that is. She talked about the importance of having low testosterone levels and basically said it was OK to compete if testosterone levels were very low, but then said that competitors who had been through male puberty had a distinct biological advantage.

What she should have said, firmly and clearly, was: Men should not be allowed to compete against women. End of.

WTF was that quote from Rachel McKinnon? I don't know anyone who has given birth to a man, or some such utter bollocks? Why the actual fuck does anyone think they have to listen to someone who spouts gibberish purely to fuel their own career success? We're so fucking scared to call out the crap. (and I include myself in that as I had to stop discussing it on Twitter due to my work).

The media are manipulating Martina's apology. This should be taken on board by all these sports people who are speaking out - never say sorry! Just explain what you meant but don't apologise. Has McKinnon ever apologised for any offence caused? I assume not.

I'll try to hear Paula's piece on catch-up.