Period talk event...men invited and I feel weird about that

[MinesaBottle]

I’m going to an IWD event at work this week, it’s about periods (period poverty, sustainable sanpro, menopause, dealing with periods at work and other topics). I’ve just found out that it’s also open to men...now I’m not sure I want to go as I don’t feel very comfortable talking about some aspects of periods with men, particularly ones I don’t know very well!

I get that they’re trying to be inclusive but surely there could be another way of informing men about period issues? I guess I’m also concerned that any men who attend will do the usual thing of taking over the discussion, making it about them etc. I’d still like to attend but I’m also nervous that if I object I’ll be piled on to, there are some women who think it’s just amazing that men want to get involved in these things. There’s a guy who is writing an article about sanpro for some magazine (!) and rather than advising him that a real ally would suggest a woman write it, some women are fawning over how great that is.

I wish we could just have one thing to ourselves without men coming in and grandstanding, or am I being mean and pessimistic and non-inclusive?

Can you ask the organisers how they will ensure that men don't dominate any discussions, and how they will enable women to discuss potentially very personal matters in a mixed forum?

Yes, I’ll have to. It concerns me that eg Muslim women or older women would be put off attending by the thought of discussing this in front of men. Which is obviously not going to make for an inclusive event.

It's not very inclusive to exclude men though is it!? How can we expect men to understand challenges woman face if we actually exclude them from the conversation.

I'm sorry, but I really disagree with you.

I think men should be equally educated about female bodily functions and issues. I can't abide men who are uneducated about something this significant that happens to half the population, who refuse to buy sanitary towels for their wife etc. I don't think it should be hidden from them and just discussed by women, as this perpetuates the issue.

I think the talk sounds like its going to touch on some interesting and necessary wider period issues, rather than you discussing your own period (which would feel a bit weird for me in a work environment.) As an adult, you should be able to talk about a bodily function in general terms.

I think it's an assumption to say that any men attending will take over - it is a possibility, but not a certain outcome. If you want to talk, talk.

I don't think a man should be writing an article about sanitary protection if there is a woman who is available to do so - I wouldn't expect to write about erections, if someone else had first hand experience!

I think you need to stand up and ask the question as soon as you can, just say what you have said here. I would also struggle to do that, it takes courage. Is there anyone you know going that you could team up with for moral support? Could you write it down several times and hand it to every speaker before they go on with a request they please address your conerns?

I'd be uncomfortable too OP. I would end up just sitting and not saying anything tbh.

Any man talking over women on an event about periods is marking themselves out as an arrogant arsehole imo. However, men listening to the issues isn't a bad thing - how else do they learn?

We complain about the woeful ignorance of men on these issues but the only way they can learn is to listen to real experience.

That said MinesaBottle I completely get your reluctance to discuss these personal matters with men present and I absolutely think women should be centered.

I'm not sure what the solution is apart from what AssassinatedB has said above asking whether the orgniasers can ensure the discussion is moderated in some way and ensuring people don't speak over one another or monologue and dominate the proceedings. Maybe some rolls of duct tape at the entrance?

I don't think a man should be writing an article about sanitary protection if there is a woman who is available to do so - I wouldn't expect to write about erections, if someone else had first hand experience!

well put.

Will there be separate parts to the event where women can discuss just with other women, and other parts where men can listen to a more general less personal discussion?

Will many (any) men go though? I would assume they have it open to everyone so they don't get accused of being "transphobic" if they specified it was a women's event.

Some of those subjects seem like they'd be suitable for men to hear about, eg. period poverty. More men should be aware of this. But do men really need to be involved in a conversation about dealing with periods at work?

It's not very clear from your OP what the primary focus is. If it's say girls in Nepal or whatever then there doesn't seem to be much reason to exclude men. If it's 'how to put in a mooncup' then it's slightly different. Also there's a difference between a presentation-type event and a discussion. There would be something a bit odd about men discussing solutions but if it's just someone with a Powerpoint and a few questions at the end I don't see the issue.

I totally agree that men need to know about this stuff and how it affects women; I’m just not sure that this’ll be an appropriate place for that. It might be fine. But I do think the fact men are welcome to attend will put some women off. The article guy is almost certain to come along and he’s a bit of a know it all, so I hope there’ll be some ground rules set at the start that include women being allowed to talk freely.

Separate parts would work better I think. It’s possible that the invitation has been extended to men so any trans men know they’re welcome and I’m fine with that.

I grew up with men around me wondering why I couldn’t “hold it in” they thought it was like peeing.. and I live with one who thought you peed from your vagina, he was genuinely baffled when I said you didn’t have to take a mooncup/tampon out to pee. Both of the men above are well educated and successful in their careers.

Half of the blokes I know wouldn’t buy their girlfriends/wife’s/partners sanpros because they literally don’t know what they’d need, ie Tena vs tampax or different absorbencies.. ex-dp found two tampons and couldn’t believe how big one was vs the other (ultra super thing vs light).

Or that certain birth control could stop or worsen your period and that varied from woman to woman.

These men could have daughters who might need educated/help and the last thing they’d need is dad sat puzzled and embarrassed himself.

It’s a bodily function half of us have at some point in our life.

There hasn’t been much info really, and I don’t want to out myself, but it’ll apparently cover what I’ve mentioned and due to the nature of some roles in our organization, discuss how to cope with heavy periods and pains while on a shift. Given some of the discussion in our internal online forum I’d expect some of it to be fairly graphic, but of course that might be different in person!

Each to their own, if you feel that uncomfortable then I would not go to it. I think it is great that they are making this meeting inclusive to men as they are often unaware of the issues women have worldwide. Also these men have wives,mothers,daughters etc so they do also have an insight into this natural occurrence and may even join in the conversation with helpful comments or ideas. I would have no issue going to a mixed conversation and welcome the openness it will create.

Also I guess any men who do come will be keen to learn, which can only be a good thing. My concerns are really that this might put some women off attending and that we might get a man trying to take over/direct the discussion.

And as mentioned I do feel a bit odd about talking about some aspects of this in front of men I don’t know that well. I know there’s a plan to launch a whole project around periods and related issues so I don’t know why men couldn’t be brought in a bit later or for certain events only.

Yes, I agree that we are always talking about wanting great normalisation and understanding from men about periods, but that will never happen if we never let them listen (emphasis on listen here!) about our experiences of it. However, you are perfectly within your rights not to want to discuss it with men.

All this is assuming this event is open to actual men and not 'anyone who identifies as a woman' men!

If a man did try to take over the discussion, surely there would be enough women there to negate that! It's 2019, not the 1950's, women can speak up without a referee!

If you're discussing how to cope with heavy periods and pain whilst on shift, then men need to listen to the outcome of such a discussion, surely, rather than be involved in the discussion itself. So women could be discussing it whilst may men have a different session maybe an any questions type thing. Then everyone could get back together and the men could listen to the conclusions and the general points made by the women. Then those can be discussed. Or something like that.

I agree that men should be aware and be informed. But they don't need to be involved in everything all of the time, especially if it is something they have no experience of.

If the focus of the event is about breaking down the taboos around periods then it makes sense to include men.

I cant imagine an event looking at all those issues would also be able to deal with the specifics of your work place or involve personal discussion. It seems too broad a remit.

IME events like this end up being all about the blokes present. If there are 2 blokes and 150 women, the Chair will let the 2 blokes take 50% of the floor time (and the blokes will feel completely entitled to do so) 'for balance' and even all the women will be fawning and making the whole event about the bloke's reasons for attending rather than the women's. Sexist bias is a right pain in the arse.

Anytime there is so much research and evidence of how in meetings and discussions men take over and speak more often and for longer. Yes, you would hope that women would be able to interrupt and talk over any men that like the sound of their own voice, but clearly that is something that doesn't happen enough. Particularly on IWD, organisers of events like this need to be aware of things like this and actively work to negate it.

This is one of the areas where I think that women really need to become more assertive. It is our area of expertise after all and if we want men to take it seriously we have to make them understand instead of letting them think they know everything. I can appreciate why it’s uncomfoftable but most period prejudice comes from men and sometimes important messages are uncomfortable. I would encourage you to put your personal discomfort aside and support other women in sharing the truth about periods by setting a positive example. I know it’s hard but it’s something we all need to work towards as a sex. We shouldn’t be ashamed or embarrassed by our periods even when men are present. I know it’s easuer said than done and I speak as someone who benefitted by going through puberty in a sex segregated environment so I haven’t had as much shame confitioning as most women but sometimes we need to just get over it and say ‘you know what, I’m sitting on a blood/tissue soaked sanitary towel right now and that’s fine’ because it is.