Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Joan McAlpine on sex and census. Wow.

169 replies

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 28/02/2019 22:59

Give this woman a standing ovation!
twitter.com/JoanMcAlpine/status/1101251118611525633?s=20

OP posts:
Muddysnowdrop · 28/02/2019 23:03

I’m amazed an SNP msp is sticking her neck out in this way. Good stuff

FermatsTheorem · 28/02/2019 23:05

What a sensible woman.

In a nutshell: Women suffer discrimination on the basis of their sex. Trans people suffer discrimination too, but for slightly different reasons. We need to record both.

Yes to all of this.

(She'll get crucified for it...)

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 28/02/2019 23:09

Annabelle Ewing was also fantastic today. Claire Baker of Labour and Annie Wells of Cons made good points too.

I'd love to see women's groups promoting certain MPs / MSPs regardless of affiliation who stood up for us.

And campaigning against woke misogynists like Ross Greer and Alex Cole Hamilton who apparently believes 5 year old boys are girls if they wear a skirt.

OP posts:
scotsheather · 28/02/2019 23:11

Well worth watching the seminar she chaired with Rosa Freedman and another from Women and Girls Scotland, and a couple making the trans case. All respectful in points of view which we need.

adultFemaleElf · 28/02/2019 23:12

Wow!
And surely/hopefully she won’t delete ALL those tweets when the bullies descend on her...

Muddysnowdrop · 28/02/2019 23:16

Can I ask for more info on what A C-H did, as he may or may not be my MSP?

TurboTeddy · 28/02/2019 23:17

Those tweets are truly remarkable in the current climate. Even more so because she has managed to clearly articulate the gender critical position in just a handful of tweets. So yes WOW

I sincerely hope it will inspire others to speak out but we'll wait and see what the backlash brings.

Melroses · 28/02/2019 23:18

That makes sense Smile

boatyardblues · 28/02/2019 23:23

Thank you Joan for saying what needs to be said. Flowers

Smotheroffive · 28/02/2019 23:23

I need to say something, and this thread is inspirational. It's simple and true without negating anything afaics!

If anyone can help with further info I would be really grateful. I have to provide educational material, thats simply setting it out as it is so id really appreciate contributions on here.. Or I can make a separate thread if that's more appropriate, just spotted this and it brought it to mind this kind of plain speaking is exactly what I'm after, across all terms such as self ID, GRC, MTF, FTM, access to previously safe spaces for women, and types of incidents, skewed reporting due to males being labelled women [in aggressor roles]

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 28/02/2019 23:26

That is all very positive I am cautiously optimistic that there are people listening to what we are saying

ErrolTheDragon · 28/02/2019 23:31

Very well put. I see there's a 'threadreader unroll' - I don't do twitter but I think if you're on it it's possible to save to pdf or suchlike, someone might want to do that.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 28/02/2019 23:34

Fantastic. Hope there are no apologies tomorrow once the TRA's have jumped on the thread.

EweSurname · 28/02/2019 23:41

This is wonderful! Clear, considered and based on material reality Star

MrsSnippyPants · 28/02/2019 23:45

This twitter thread actually made me want to applaud. If only more politicians could articulate their thoughts like this. I sincerely hope she does not cave in to any pressure from the usual suspects.

2rebecca · 28/02/2019 23:51

Agree. Brilliant Twitter thread

Orwellianmince · 28/02/2019 23:52

Joan McAlpine MSP is a Star-she is saying what many women are thinking and what some Scottish women/campaigners may have expressed to her, as Convener of the Census Bill, if not their MSP.
The Lib Dem MSP, mentioned above, seemed to think he was at a Dinner Party where we would be interested in anecdotes about his children (what about the views of his constituents he is supposed to represent at, you know, the Scottish Parliament Hmm). He didn't grasp the issues re: Intersex-even though this had been made explicit by other MSPs during the debate!

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 28/02/2019 23:57

Muddy he opened saying he explained trans to his son with example of a visit from Hamish from Australia who wore a skirt. Hamish was born a boy but "identified as girl" because he wore a skirt and he was 5. That's right 5! Alex C-H thinks tiny kids who dress up are "trans". Alex thinks it's great "acceptance" if you label a boy in a skirt a girl rather than saying they can wear whatever they fricking want.

It got worse. First off, of course, we're "Cisgender" Women.

Then he's "dismayed by the hyperbole" and that nasty women are conjuring up a threat to public safety. Apparently it's like homophobia of past (of course). This a day after news broke that a serial sex offender was placed in women's shelter in Fife because "identity". But we're hysterical.

And then he topped it with a really insensitive comment about "intersex" people needing 3rd option. Which might have been ignorance but he'd just sat through a load of MSPs praising DSD families for their submission on difference of sexual development and apologising for including them in an identity category.

All I'm saying is, if Joan has any chums who want to stand for Edinburgh West...

OP posts:
Trousering · 28/02/2019 23:59

Orwellianmince

Libdem MP at a Dinner Party. Just about sums them up really.

BetsyM00 · 28/02/2019 23:59

For completeness here's the video of today's debate at Parliament:

And the Official Record: www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11964&mode=pdf

And now you'll have to excuse me as I'm off to dance round the room! Grin

WaddIelikeapenguin · 01/03/2019 00:01

Oh wow, I’m shocked but delighted. Sadly she’s not my MSP but I shall write to her to thank her regardless (& send a copy of her fantastic thread to my MSPs Grin )

irnbruforlife · 01/03/2019 00:04

Joan mcalpine is one of the few reasons I'm still voting snp. That Twitter thread is outstanding. Thank God there is some sense left in snp. I'd like to know what Nicola surgeon thinks. I'd be heartbroken/gutted if she came out as an ok dokey wokey blokey.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 01/03/2019 00:05

Let's remind them. We are 51% of population. We vote. And we want women like Joan!

OP posts:
CharlieParley · 01/03/2019 00:06

My word, that is incredibly brave of her. I shouldn't feel like that because every single thing she says is true, sane, rational and based on material reality. And respectful of the needs of all.

Boggles the mind to know that this might get her even more attacks, while a young bloke like Ross Greer who clearly has less than zero understanding of the reality of our lives, of what it means to be female in a male-dominated world can pontificate about putting men's feelings above women's rights and will be applauded for it.

RG was the only one at that debate by the way who in my view was offensive and disrespectful to those who disagreed with him, a truly astonishing display of male privilege.

Even the Conservatives (I can't believe I'm saying that - the Conservatives!) were more respectful, fair and balanced than Ross and considered the rights of women while being mindful of the needs of LGBT people.

The Conservatives winning that comparison versus the party I've voted for all my life! FFS Shock

Ross had the gall to say that all respectable women's organisations agreed with him that there is no problem with including men who self-ID as trans in all women's spaces.

Smearing all of the new grassroots - and most importantly not goverment-funded and therefore independent - women's rights groups as dishonest, disreputable, and unworthy.

And we know of course from the individual women's groups included within these umbrella organisations that it does cause issues and harms the women and children who they are trying to support. They just daren't say that out loud because of people like Ross calling all dissenting voices bigoted and disreputable (but worse still because they would jeopardise their funding).

And he didn't just play trans privilege activist bingo, insulting women by repeatedly calling us cis, framing objections to a non-binary sex question as bigotry etc etc, he also claimed the NHS had no problem with letting people self-identify their sex by changing their CHI number.

Imagine being elected to parliament and saying that out loud. I have a number of friends who work in the NHS and they have a huge, enormous problem with that. But Ross apparently knows better.

Sadly, one of his trump cards, that sex is a spectrum had been denied him by the unequivocal rejection and strong condemnation of the original Bill conflating metaphysical trans identities and the physiological medical conditions collectively known as DSDs.

What a triumph for sanity, science and reason that was.

Cannot for the life of me remember what ACH said. As soon as he started telling an inspiring story of his own child making pithy, precocious remarks about a young boy who was really a girl because he liked wearing dresses, my eyes glazed over and my brain decided to spare me the rest. Might watch it again if it's worth it but as he also played a bit of trans privilege activist bingo, I doubt it's worth it.

Smotheroffive · 01/03/2019 00:08

Hallelujah! To recording sex and identity as separate entities on the census! This will make for unhappy reading riots to those TW who like to switch between sexes from one day to the next, have it clearly laid out you cannot be another sex, only identity (what you call yourself) a clear distinction.