Boy, 12, raped six-year-old sister ‘to recreate Grand Theft Auto scene’, court told

[OtepotiLilliane42]

This is horrific, and I found it hard to read, especially the part where "the boy’s mother told the court he was “doing really well” and hoped her family could one day reconcile.

“We just want to make things right and do what's best for the safety of the children,” she added.

“My daughter used to be very sad about it all because she worried this was her fault, but she’s come on leaps and bounds, she’s a very strong girl and there’s not an ounce of sadness in her now, I’m so proud of her.” (My emphasis).

Pertinent questions for me are why this boy was permitted to play an R18 game unsupervised, and why his sister could not tell her parents what was going on, but felt that what was happening to was her fault! At age 6!

And shouldn't a 12 year old know, without being told, that what he did
to his sister was dreadfully wrong? At least it seems as if the boy and his sister are getting the therapy they both need, but it's a story that makes one despair at how even young girls will feel responsible for male behaviour.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-boy-sister-gta-sex-scene-swindon-court-a8799261.html

I despair of our society tbh. It’s end days seem to be washed in a hue of terrifying violent abuse, filmed and watched for a bit of fun and games made where you can rape characters for a laugh and it’s seen as a perfectly harmless pastime. What a time to be alive

I am honestly struggling to think of a single kids cartoon, game, book etc where the idea isn't to hit or hurt or kill. Where characters arent eaten, kidnapped, shot with fire balls, tied up, chased etc

Yes things are more graphic now but the storylines or ideas are not that different.

Kids study Shakespeare in school. We all know how romeo and juliet ends. The kids didn't all make suicide pacts after.

We all still grew up watching a cat and mouse beat each other to a pulp .

We all tucked our kids in at night reading a story about a girl kidnapped by a nasty man who she managed to change then fell in love with her captor

Yes we need to watch what our kids have access too I have never ever said we dont

But a 12 year old kid should know the difference between fictional computer games and reality. The idea they are so influenced by them is worrying and I think we need to tackle the susceptibility.

Porn is obviously a little different as it's real people and real actions. But that's where we need to tell out children it's not real. It's not right. And they shouldn't be expecting to do it or have it done to them.

My biggest bug bear with the whole attitude of pinning it on games etc is that it's now used as a way out in court. Actions don't have consequences if you can make.out you were influenced in certain ways to do it. That is wrong and is contributing to the situation we have

That doesn't erase our responsibilities as parents to make sure we teach our kids to make.the distinction between what they see on TV vs reality.

Fwiw my parents were pretty strict with regards to what we watched which is why I had to be sneaky to watch half the stuff .

I was the one who grew up watching horrors.

My brother on the other hand he was never into horrors and babies something chronic as a kid. Didn't stop him being violent towards me. Way before we got our hands on a nintendo to shoot ducks .

I'm just saying there is a deeper reason we need to look at.

Babied

MamaDane wrote - "I often think mothers are the worst in this scenario".

MamaDane wrote - "I do think it's wrong to generalize based on gender, skin, or sexuality."

vesuvia yes, key word "often". I also said I understand mothers dilemma as they are essentially having to choose between their kids.

Tom and Jerry was supposed to be funny because the mouse always outsmarted the cat. If it was a realistic depiction of what cats do to mice then we wouldn’t let our dc watch it, or most of us wouldn’t anyway, as it wouldn’t be funny it would be distressing unnecessary violence.

I self censor in that as an adult I can watch what I want but I don’t want to watch women being raped and I don’t want to play games where raping and murdering npc is seen as a cheeky Easter egg etc etc. I don’t understand why people do want to watch these things or do these things and also want write it off as harmless entertainment. They obviously get something from it specifically, as there’s a million other things you could do instead.

Adults spending their time killing cgi zombies, blah. Kids watching Disney Marvel films, yawn. Anyone playing games where you turn baddies into cherries or coins or whatever, whatever. These things are not the same as watching real life actual violence or role playing the same real life actual violence that is carried out across the world, predominantly by men towards women, children and other men.

But it also happens and has happened in places where they dont have this stuff.

Take the Duggar family for instance.

Restricted to the point the girls weren't even able to compete their midwifery training because they may come into contact with lesbians, single mums and u married parents. Homeschooled too in order to keep their kids sheltered from everything.

Yet the brother still abused his sisters.

I'm.not saying it doesn't impact. I am saying that if we think parental controls on the internet and banning computer games will be the answer, then I think thats a mistake.

Siblings can grow up in the exact same environment exposed to all kinds of things. And still turn out opposites of each other.

I'm.just saying theres more too it

As I said in a previous post. I grew up watching horrors. I've never hurt anyone.

My brother on the other hand used to beat me up and he wasnt exposed to this stuff. We only had terrestrial TV too and a bed time.

We need to teach them its fake. That violence is bad. Sex should he consensus between adults etc. Teach them so they can he exposed to this stuff and know it's wrong and tell us they saw it .

Girls are blamed for their clothes by adults

Boys are brought up entitled . If they weren't then they would know not to behave that way.

Ot all starts way eat way before they are exposed to this stuff.

It merely exposes the failures rather than being the cause

*MamaDane

@mammoon That's a pretty silly question, don't you think? I think it's fair to assume a man isn't a rapist unless he's convicted of rape or if there has any other indication to indicate he's a rapist.*

Huh? Most rapes aren’t reported. Of those that are, few are prosecuted. Of those that are prosecuted, few are convicted. Not all
rapists are reported, or charged, let alone convicted and they certainly don’t walk around with signs around their neck indicating they are rapists. Many likely don’t even consider themselves rapists.

Many don’t report out of fear, confusion, because the rape was by a friend or a partner, or they were convinced they “consented” as they didn’t fight it off hard enough. Even many women are, or feel shamed for getting “into that situation”, or do not want to “ruin someone’s reputation” and thus stay silent.

I was 14 when I was sexually assaulted and raped by a so-called friend who “convinced me” it was better to give in than fight it. Guess how many I reported it to? No one. Because I felt ashamed and scared and doubted by own sanity as to what happened. Because I had a boyfriend and thought maybe my rape meant I was cheating on him and he would leave. Because I thought reporting it would get me into trouble for being sexually active. I can tell you that guy would never call himself a rapist or consider himself one.

My best friend when I was a teenager was raped by an ex-boyfriend. She reported it. He was charged. And then he was not convicted because well, she had let him in the house and it was his word against hers. He claimed she wanted him back and she was giving him “signals”. He won. And she was slandered by many who said she was trying to ruin his life.

These were both “nice guys”; what kind of signs do you think rapists walk around with to indicate they were rapists?

I don’t assume all men are rapists, but I have also known plenty of boys and men who get very confused about what is or is not consent and when they tell you stories about their own sexual experiences you can see very well what they did was not by consent aka rape. I have worked in some rather male dominated areas and heard many stories, and while none of them would label themselves rapists, and I bet nor would their families, what they did was sexual assault and/or rape. Taking home the girl who was sooo
drunk and could not say no or did say no but “not convincingly”, pressuring a women to just go a little
farther because she already had consented to this she should do that, having a partner decline sex and go to sleep and then waking them up with a sexual act, etc. So I don’t assume they aren’t rapists or aren’t capable of it either.

Well, what that tells us is that abuse and violence is everywhere and there is absolutely no need to reproduce it and repackage it as an entertaining pastime for tweens and upwards. It’s not the same as shooting aliens or zombies or saving the world from a crazy robot is it? Women and children and men are raped everyday, abused everyday, murdered everyday- why do we need to film it and watch it or play act it? What does it say about the human race?

I was exposed to horror films as a young child and yes I’ve not gone on to own a hockey mask and a murderous doll, but equally it has not enhanced my life or protected me from real life violence or anything else positive.

MamaDane

To add, stats indicate between 1 in 4 women are raped by the time they are in their mid 40s, 1 in 5 have been sexually assaulted since they were 16, etc (stats vary on location and specific questions, these are based on US, UK, etc...of course in some places where there is war or there are beliefs about sleeping with virgins to cure AIDS, etc the rates are much higher).

Where do you think the boys and men who are the violators come from? It’s not like one group of boys and men traveling across the world committing these rapes; 2/3 rapists are known to the victim.

Obviously it's not the case (for most people) that just being exposed to porn and violence will make them recreate rape and violence themselves.

But they have a HUGE effect in normalising rape and violence, deadening belief in and empathy for victims (as demonstrated in this thread) and preventing normal sexual development in young people. Everything from hollywood waxes to spitting in women's faces during sex are things that have migrated from porn into young people's everyday experiences.

So yes, while it's not the case that it's the only factor, games like GTA and porn are definitely important factors in how we as a society condone, excuse, and even facilitate rape, violence, and abuse.

I don't think it's that complicated to understand, really. Companies wouldn't spend billions on advertising every year if visual messages didn't work on us. We know that they do.

What causes males to rape females - we don't know every factor in every case, but we can certainly see common trends and factors and be realistic about the effects of saturating society with images of women as dehumanised fuck-toys.

golden

I am.well aware of what happens to women and girls on a daily basis.

I am one.

I have 2 dds.believe me I worry every day.

I dont see the point in most these games either. I'm not a game person. But millions of people also play them with no issues.

I wont say horror movies bever added positive things to ly life. I enjoy watching them. I enjoy looking into some of the subjects . Stories re hauntings and what went on in buildings etc .

I dont think children should he exposed to this stuff of course I dont.

But I'm worried about the excuses to let boys off this disgusting behaviour and the effect on the lives of the victims as a result than I am about the accidental exposure to the stuff.

For all their faults my parents got it half right with me. I may not have felt able to tell them stuff but I did know stuff was bull shit akd was not easily led.

I can only hope to do better with my 2..

For anyone who hasn't seen it, this talk by Gail Dines is an excellent (but disturbing) overview of what porn is and the effects it has on boys in particular.

See I don’t see it as an excuse to let people off the hook when they rape and abuse little girls, I see it as part of the bigger picture where raping and abusing is nbd, you see it all the time in games and on tv, women ‘like’ being hurt and half murdered in porn so how’s anyone to know what anyone consents to these days, shooting a load of defenceless bystanders in your immersive, realistic game you play for 12 hours a day is hilarious and something to put up on YouTube and on and on. It’s desensitising people in general with regards to inflicting pain on others and having empathy for people weaker than yourself.

I watch violent stuff but it’s not where the violence is carried out by the strongest on the weakest and they are rewarded for that. Whereas that’s what you can do in gta and that’s what porn is these days and that’s what this 12 year old was easily exposed to as you don’t need to hunt far for this stuff, and that coupled with his inadequate parents and whatever inside him gave him the go ahead to make his choices, resulted in a little girl being repeatedly raped.

This is so sad. That poor girl and that boy should never have been exposed to such scenes. What the hell were the parents thinking?!! The girl and her friend were very brave to speak up. He should never have done what he did. He is a rapist and he shouldn't be anywhere near his sister, but ay the same time I do feel for him. He's only 12. I can only imagine there's more to it. Can a video game make a child rape? It doesn't sound that simple to me. So glad I don't have to hear the details of this case as a jury member. It will stay with them forever.

I'm not sure 2.5 years on the sex register is long enough either.

golden

See I dont think it's about being desensitized. A crime is a crime by the very definition of what ever that crime is. The basic definitions arent being rewritten to cover for people who have varying ideas of the seriousness .

It's about not caring. That attitude has been present towards women and girls since Man walked the planet. We like to think we have come a long way but allowing women to report to the police is nothing more than a courtesy idea. Its been made pretty much impossible for anything to ever come of it. Because no one cares what happens to us . They dont care of it was one loud no. and they dont care if she dies in the process. They likely will still walk away.

Men amd boys have always blamed everyone else. Whether its because they saw a porno , whether it's because she didn't scream, or whether their parents never told then they shouldn't have done it, it's just another way to get out of being held accountable. One which society with a heavy Male influence in law and policing and services meant to help people has jumped at the opportunity to do. Because Male violence makes men look bad that's the tenth rule..That has always been there. It's not new . They just find a way. Every time

Because what's the first rule? Women are responsible for what men do.

I'm not saying that rapists shouldn't be held accountable???? looking at how society works and the influence of society on our development, morals, behaviour and expectations (i.e. sociology ffs) isn't arguing that people aren't responsible for their actions. Trying to see and understand the connections between things isn't letting people off the hook. Where do you get the idea that trying to understand the reasons and causes and influences on behaviour is making excuses for that behaviour?

Rape is certainly not a new phenomenon, but it's only in the last few years that it's become normal and common for men to spit on women during consensual sex, for example. Where do you think men are getting that behaviour from? No one is saying that the men who assault and rape shouldn't be held accountable but how the hell does it follow from that that we shouldn't critique pornography and understand its influence?

And "a porno" ffs. You are talking about the filmed rape and abuse of women. It is absolutely horrendous and real women and children are harmed in its making. Even if you don't believe pornography has any influence over the wider culture (you are wrong) that doesn't change the fact that it is literal torture for the real human females and children of both sexes who are trafficked into it.

I know what porn is. And all these men now were once boys.

Boys who like us perhaps didn't grow up with what kids have now.

They did however grow up entitled and with all the signs dismissed as normal behaviour.

The very people making the decisions as to whether someone gets a jail sentence are often men much older . Who also had nkne of this. Amd when men walk out of court because they were sex deprived or the judge blamed porn those were not held accountable.

I havent said it doesn't impact at all. But there is no deterrent any more and that will also lead to more and more.disgusting horrific things being done

No one stands up and says I'm.a disgusting violent rapist . They blame someone or something. And for as long as that is believed as full explanation of said behaviour not only are men laughing but we are not looking at the changes that could jsbe been made from the second they entered the world

I guess what I'm saying is, that although these things are horrific and no kid should ever be exposed and the men making and watching this stuff are disgusting, I think they bring out something that was always there as a result of how they have been raised or treated from birth.

And I want nothing more than for porn or TV shows or computer games to he kept out of the defence. For every one of them to be held accountable for what they are.

If a judge is able to even use it to reduce a sentence or let them walk then they must be at it themselves imo

There is a reason why feminists have campaigned against pornography for decades.

Watch the Gail Dines talk. Pornography is part of what is driving these attitudes. What makes you think that older men don't watch porn? That judges and lawyers are not subject to the influence of women-hating in the culture generally, and porn specifically? There is research which shows watching porn makes men more likely to victim blame. Porn perpetuates misogynistic attitudes towards women which are part of a culture of victim blaming which means males can rape without fear of consequences.

I do not believe that males are innately evil. We are all formed by our society. We grow up in a society where women are hated, reviled, blamed and tortured simply for being women. Porn is part of that. It helps to give form and focus to misogyny. It's not the only influence, but it is a powerful one. It shouldn't be discounted. Neither should the women who are churned up and destroyed by the multi-billion porn industry.

It’s like if you’re living in a war zone and you’re a woman then you’re highly likely to be raped. The conditions and justifications that are made for this happening are because it’s a war zone.

Violent porn, violent games that allow you to rape characters, every other tv show routinely using the rape and murder of women as a plot device, music that reduces us to bitches and hos, books where we boobily breast down the stairs, advertising where we are wearing nothing for no reason, websites full of utter hatred towards women with no recourse etc are our modern war zone. There is propaganda daily which tells men and boys that they do not need to respect us and can treat us like meat. We are not fully human like they are and as such, can be treated like chattel.

Your ancient judges grew up with women essentially being beholden to husbands and fathers, your 12 year old rapist grows up with women as bitches who need to do as their told and are only good for sex and making sandwiches. Same old, same old.

I think on the whole that porn is an expression of misogynistic society rather than a cause of it. As such I would count it as hate material that should be done away with but it won't be because its roots are so deep. And even if it were done away with, women and girls would still be raped. They were being raped long before free porn sites came along. It is filmed abuse and the men in the industry are abusers. For that reason it should all be shut down tomorrow. But the real issue is the attitudes that lie behind porn. While they persist, women and girls are at risk.

I feel I’m not making my position clear - I don’t think ubiquitous online porn/games are the sole reason for male violence - if this was the case no one would have been raped prior to 2004. It’s more these things create the conditions now where if you’re already that way inclined, it gives you ideas, validation and justification for what you want to do. Much like when they do research on psychopathy and psychopaths brought up in loving, caring, functional circumstances tend to funnel their psychopathy into ‘positive’ pursuits rather than violence. I see that all that stuff creates the conditions that enable male violence against women and girls rather than creating the loving, caring, functional circumstances where it wouldn’t even occur to a 12 year old you could do those things as those things would not exist beyond the small proportion of predators that come up with this all on their own.

Or maybe how it is, is how it is and the fact that 1/5 of women and girls in this country have been raped is simply how it is and it is not possible to change this with any action. I don’t believe that, I don’t believe this is as good as it gets for women and girls.