Help a brother out

[Glinner]

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

Was just about to say, two excellent posts there to share with Penny Mordant tomorrow on the response to the webchat.

They illustrate all the issues women have explained on that thread, in particular the legal threats, misuse and misrepresentation of the EA, the campaign to 'win' by removing women's single sex spaces from them, and the rest of your list there Abuse

Knicknackpaddyflak Thing is it's all there for everyone to see as plain as day how abusive this all is, except those in power refuse to look. All you have to do is search for 'terf' on twitter to witness the torrents of abuse and violent threats hurled at women, mainly by men, and the measured arguments put forward by so-called 'terfs' - that's why terfblocker exists, so the easily-led people follow along and join in the chorus without actually finding out what the supposed evil 'transphobes' are actually saying. It's only a matter of time though, surely people can't be that f*ing stupid forever. I personally think images speak a thousand words, that's why sport has been such a powerful tool in demonstrating the unfairness of some of the demands being made.

hera, what else?

Can we have your take on sports? Prisons?

Many in here have been gaslighted, do not like real evidence and do not like the fact that they are not allowed to ask to see a GRC because it's against the law.

Unlike a birth certificate. Just to clear that up.

In all honesty, what is the point of a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) if no other person is ever allowed to ask to see it? Talk about a total exercise in obfuscation!

Many in here have been gaslighted

Well this is true but not in the way you're suggesting.

It wasn't one single thing for me, more a collection of things.

But it was mainly the guides, furthered by McKinnon, twitter bannings and police involvement in misgendering etc.

The whole think is a mess and it's making me wonder what world my daughter will inherit from the so called adults.

Lately the rape shelter being defunded by someone with an agenda. The idiot suing because someone called him sir. McKinnon going after Sharon Davies and Martina Navratilova.

In my view thee are 3 distinct groups in the trans umbrella, people with dysphoria, fetishists, bandwagon jumpers.

Dysphoria sufferers, to don't see them much, they're busy trying their best to ease symptoms and 'fit in' for lack of better term.

Fetishists.. those that mistake arousal for dysphoria.. usually companies by posing as over the top 'women' in heels and skirts and such. Realising your trans at 61 at a party... Yeah kay then..

Band waggoners.. young, shout alot, threaten, want attention etc etc. Not much different to any other fashionable movement of years passed. Once they hit 30 they'll be bankers and solicitors and will cringe when they look back.

My point is I was drawn in by the shouting and ridiculous behaviour of the fetishists and the threats and doxxing behaviour of the waggoners but also by the empathy and honesty of the truly dysphoric who seem to have the smallest voice when it's those the others impact most..

Hope that makes sense..

I wrote a thread on Twitter about how maintaining a clear definition of woman was important in order to preserve women rights internationally. I thought this was relatively uncontroversial. Since then I was

1. Followed by a lot of women
2. Ignored by most of my normal academic followers
3. Contacted privately by female academics who told me they are afraid to say these things, especially in their own name
4. Contacted by some people to be told I need to get myself educated, read Butler, become an ally...
5. Blocked on Twitter by some of the above
6. Threatened with death on Twitter
7. Suspended permanently by Twitter, for criticising womb transplantation in transwomen

Read something on here about GRA reform and spent some time researching it trying to work out if someone was really trying to pass a law allowing any man to say he was a woman and legally become one.

Turns out they were.

Watched various interactions where men/those born male and now calling themselves women and often retaining penises vilified women trying to even discuss this, especially feminists and lesbians.

Joined in on twitter and followed lots of people on twitter who were retweeting some TW being v unpleasant about women and the issues involved. Had a sudden realisation ‘oh, they’re men!’

Am most disturbed by the freedom of speech issues, by an area where women concerned about truth and women and children’s safety feel afraid to speak up. I have never encountered anything like that before and don’t see it going anywhere good if it’s not challenged.

Someone told me about the GRA and I started to look at Twitter. Cyclepath made me want to cry with rage but the peak trans moment for me was actually during a twitter exchange with a woman. I can’t remember how it started but I stated that as a victim of rape I don’t feel safe changing with men/sharing toilets. She then when IN on me, told me to “get some
fucking therapy and stop using your “trauma” as an excuse for bigotry”. I was so shocked by the aggression and the scorn that I felt winded. Imagine screaming abuse at a rape victim explaining their fear of men. It was then I realised how far down the pecking order we are. Even Women are putting males feelings first and throwing their sex to the wolves. This peak trans moment also was my first glimpse into thinking about radical feminism.

Ah wait! I found the tweet - it also
Stated that trans women are more likely to suffer violence from men than cis women. And she signed off with “get fucked”

Hi Glinner, thanks for standing up for women and girls.

I was on reddit in a couple of forums and saw a group of people refer to another group of people as 'terfs.' I didn't know what the word meant and wanted to know why they were talking about, they insisted these terfs were awful terrible people. I clicked on the link which lead to the gender critical forum on reddit (Terf HQ) and realised that I agreed with everything in there and felt confused how anyone could possibly think what they were saying was bad or wrong in anyway since it was all pretty much factual common sense. I then realised that all the other subreddits on reddit that were meant for women to discuss things like domestic violence and relationships were full of men who 'identified' as women. I have nothing against transexuals but it's simply not the same as being an actual woman and I felt horrified that they were now insisting that they were the same as actual women and insisting on colonising our spaces and using our language to describe themselves whilst making up new words to make us a subcategory of our own sex.

I started reading, and reading and reading and the more I read the more horrified I became. I found out that they were calling lesbians 'bigots' for not wanting to sleep with biological males. This is clearly ludicrous, because by definition lesbians are only attracted to women and women = adult human females. I actually felt like I was living in a nightmare and it couldn't be true, for example when I found out that 'puberty blockers' even exist, the surgery they have, how we could be reported for feeling scared about men being in women's toilets etc, how funding, jobs and scholarships that had been meant for women to encourage participation are now being awarded to men who 'identify' as women, how they could soon be able to self ID into domestic violence refuges, how they are now placing convicted male rapists in women's prisons. It's like something out of a dystopian novel.

Since then I've thought about it every single day, and feel frightened a lot about the future. I'm so glad more and more women (and men) are waking up to the horror that is this ideology and speaking up against it.

Vicky Eadie, is that in a country that has the new GRA like Canada?

I'm curious as to how it's working out in these countries that have the relaxed self ID legislation.

@VickyEadie

I'm now estranged from a (gay male) family member after a discussion in which he tried to educate me about why TWAW. Part of this was him telling me I had "no reason to be worried" about the thought of men coming into women's spaces. I'm afraid the words "How fucking dare you!" were used by me and he cut me off soon after.

My hetero male cousin did this to me without the slightest hint of irony nor realisation that he was being so patronising.

@R0wantrees

Really, Mumsnet? My first ever deletion (as far as I know) and it was a post about my mother dying of Ovarian cancer?

@BettyDuMonde

MNHQ Its worth considering that whomever decided to report Betty's post is hardly 'in the spirit' of the board given this is Mumsnet and Feminism and Women's Rights.

I remember Betty's arrival on the board, the circumstances and also her decision to share what are incredibly important impacts for women's gyny health when TRAs lobby Cancer Charities.

The point at which women's health is put at risk due to ill-thought out male interest lobby groups should have been a real cause for concern to every woman and every female-centred platform.

I'm not going to write any more just now.

Hi I am new to all this and unaware of lobby groups that are putting female cancer patients at risk. Is there any literature about this i can read?

In the 1980s I was a union organizer. The state I worked for moved a transgender male from one of the many men's institution to the only women's institution to protect him from sexual assault. He refused protective custody protections because they limited his movements.
The Department of Corrections chose to endanger over 200 women to protect one man.
That showed me everything I needed to know about the future of women's rights.
I started paying attention to more than the pay gap and abortion rights.

It was several things.

The hysteria over Jo Rowlings perfectly reasonable tweets and statement and realising the daughter of a friend condemming her, hadn't even read them.

The Lib dem transphobia policy which literally copied the antisemitism policy and substituted the word transphobia.

The murk surrounding the Aimee Challenor stuff.

The trans iceskater, ballet dancer and swimmers.

The cotton ceiling seminars.

Working for the NHS and seeing idiots blindly walking into this

Genuinely love you Glinner. Thank you for all you’ve done for women.

My moment was when “Lily” Madigan became a Labour Women’s Officer. I was furious, and I still am tbh. I note it’s all gone very quiet on this front after the accusations surrounding Madigan. What a surprise.

I worked with a Mt f trans person in the 90s. Their children did not accept the transition. About a year in, with nothing left of their past life, they told me that they were wearing male clothes at home and really wondering why they had done it. I really struggled with the idea that they could feel like a woman. I felt for their wife and children
Then a child came to live with me ,after Childrens Services involvement.She said she was non binary , then trans. She was dealing with so much loss and she was so afraid. I looked for support everywhere. Found Mumsnet through that. I tried to be supportive without cheerleading, but then I realised that I didn’t believe this girl was a boy, and I would not be able to stand by while she got deeper into it. I decided I would just ask her to tell me more whenever she raised the issue. She had socially transitioned at school without our knowledge. She came one day and said she was tired of the transphobia. I asked what had happened, she said again transphobia, but I persisted and said what happened and she answered well pronouns. I just laughed and said really. She had a full on meltdown. I sat with her through it . Very soon afterwards she told us that she wasn’t trans after all. She has loads of trans friends . Recently I’ve been able to explain that I think they are lovely, I just worry that they put so much effort into achieving the impossible, and have had to sacrifice so much to do so. I think she is starting to get that now. I know that if her friends detransitioned, they would still have their support network. I’ve had 2 close friends die of breast cancer, letting young women have their breasts amputated on a whim fills me with horror. Leather clad , whip wielding male brown owls can just fuck right off. Men in womens refuges and prisons , nope. People can not change sex. Pretending they can is not kind. So thankful for the education I’ve got on here.

Oops zombi thread

What are the allegations against Lily Madigan @shergar ?

Come to show off my new name!

@Scotcheggz it was a long time ago. Lily was doing their thing, very visible in political and activist circles, and also harassing a lesbian who didn’t want to date him. If I remember correctly it wasn’t at the point of criminality, but unwanted and coercive and an excellent demonstration of women needing spaces that men like Lily don’t use.

Thanks for that. Love the new name @AGlinnerOfHope !

Some zombie threads can have a surprising amount of life in them 😃

I'm glad that girl had you there for her

Let's undead the thread! I'm sure glinner has the information he needs, but I'm interested in other women's reasons for being in this, we all know that it would be easier to ignore it.

For me it was the cognitive dissonance caused the first time I heard the phrase "NO DEBATE!" This was from someone who had always been willing to engage on any subject and we'd had excellent discussions, sometimes in agreement but one of us playing devil's advocate, for the sake of debate and sometimes ending up agreeing to disagree on a particular topic, but we had fabulous, interesting discussions on everything. So I was somewhat confused by their stance.

This was about 2016 and over the next few years I started to notice how much no debate was happening. Gradually I read and learned more. Then I found out that a friend of mine was a grade A terf! So she taught me quite a bit.

I didn't discover the Mumsnet terven until during the pandemic and that's how I found my tribe!