Help a brother out

[Glinner]

Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

Males who feel compelled to comply with typically female sex based stereotypes seem to be unable to understand that they are still part of the dominant class. It may not feel that way, but those are the facts

I'm sure Glinner is checking back into this thread. He asked for accounts of when we first found something was wrong and what persuaded us to get involved. It won't be helpful to find pages of posts responding to a derailment attempt. That is the intention of derailing: to undermine the purpose of a thread.

I would implore everyone not to let such derailment attempts to be successful.

What moonsick, and others said.

Here's schrodinger's rapist, for anybody who cares to understand why women fear men as a class. No male, whatever their identity, needs to take it personally. Except it would be wonderful if all males, whatever their identities, took some fucking responsibility for sorting out the class of male.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger’s-rapist-or-a-guy’s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

Sorry lang. You're right, as ever!

Fair enough, LangCleg.

To return to the original request: I've been thinking about this issue for decades, but the point at which I realised that the meaning of "trans" had shifted, and was being used as a vehicle for misogynists to bash women, was over the prison issue, some years back, when that prisoner with the "seven inch surprise", and who'd bust someone's face in, was being presented as a vulnerable woman prisoner. That was the tipping point for me. Anyone who knows anything about women in prison knows that they are an incredibly vulnerable group, and that putting male prisoners in with them is incredibly damaging and dangerous.

First raised my eyebrows when Germaine Greer was no-platformed. I'm not at all well versed in feminism theory but did remember her to be generally the kind of person who will see something (mainly BS) and call it what is it. I found her quite difficult to watch on TV as she was so - uncompromising. But even so, no -platformed?

From there I think I wandered into the Feminism Chat pages, and in a sad way, I wish I hadn't. The initial disbelief of the way the trans agenda was going did not seem to be possible. Seriously, I thought this was a bit of exaggeration and conspiracy theory territory.

I had thought I had said the right things to my sons about C or B Jenner - 'some people feel they are in the wrong body.' Be nice, be kind.

Then C or B Jenner was named woman of the year by some magazine and I thought...WFT? What the actual F?

Its interesting to see so many people seem to have had the same watershed type peak trans moments.

My sons are fully in agreement with me now. I think my husband thought I was exaggerating everything initially -to be fair, it is so effing bonkers, who wouldn't? And his musical hero came out in favour of shared space toilets - I've put him right on that too. So I feel I have peak trans them all.

What tipped me over the edge was reading about the apology extracted from the NHS by a woman who had specifically requested a female nurse in advance of her smear test, only to find that she had been allocated to someone with "close cropped hair, a beard and a deep voice". When she stood her ground and insisted on a female HCP, the person claimed to be transsexual and clearly didn't understand why that wasn't good enough. The woman left rather than be tested.

I was furious on her behalf because it had echoes of something that happened to me when I was a patient in ICU with life-threatening sepsis some five years ago. A young female nurse was having difficulty inserting a catheter and had to ask her colleagues for assistance. A male nurse with earrings and traces of make-up on his face came and stood at the foot of my bed complaining bitterly that he had "done the female conversion course but I'm still not allowed to do female catheters. It's a breach of MY human rights!" And all the while, I was mute, too ill to speak (never mind to speak up), but my mind was alert enough to register what was happening and it was screaming, "What about MY rights? My right to be treated by another woman?"

I have no idea what the male nurse identified as. But just imagine if that had happened today in the current climate and not five years ago.

Oh, and the other thing was the discovery of the pre-fix 'cis'.

My head boils with rage every time I think abut it.

Go out and read facts - not from Transgender Trend, WPUK, FPFW, Blanchard, Zucker, Heritage foundation, or any of the hard right-wing media and learn the truth if you dare.

I like how you helpfully told us what not to read, but could you give me some links to those facts I should be reading? Thanks

Very few of you will ever read factual stuff about trans people

What, you mean like "human beings cannot change sex"?

and this is why many trans people wont talk to you

Mm. They sure love talking at us...

It was going off to read facts (aka ‘educating ourselves’) that led most of us to peak. Everytime someone trans suggests this, it’s just a matter of time until another t**f is made.

I jumped to report that post as it's frankly defamatory about glinner. but actually I think it should stay

when someone tells you who they are, believe them

The only ones who do may not be trans at all, but crossdressers, who are completely different to transsexual people. And some crossdressers do go for surgery which is fine as long as they go private and don't take a place from somebody who desperately needs it.

So how do you suggest we distinguish between those who are cross dressers and those who are transexuals? Don't they both come under the trans umbrella? Wouldn't self ID allow both to access women's services and spaces without barriers?

Why are the cross dressers any less deserving of surgery on the NHS than transexuals? Who makes that distinction/qualification? A medical professional? The person themselves? Other trans people?

So the first attempt at derailment didn't work. Why should the second?

Bunbury, people, Bunbury.

Please let's not devalue the thread purpose by falling for it.

Why are the cross dressers any less deserving of surgery on the NHS than transexuals? Who makes that distinction/qualification? A medical professional? The person themselves? Other trans people?

Not to mention that it is Stonewall who has decreed that a cross dresser is just as trans as anyone else who says they are.

That's terfy talk Hera2. Who on earth have you been listening to?

Please let's not devalue the thread purpose by falling for it.

You're right, of course.

Very few of you will ever read factual stuff about trans people and this is why many trans people wont talk to you

I hate to pull the rug from under your superior posture stance Hera but many of us here know trans people quite intimately. We are relatives, friends, colleagues and parents of trans people. We’ve campaigned with them for their rights and freedoms. We think stereotypes are bullshit and challenge them every day.

Do you need to go back a chapter and catch up? We’ll wait for you.

Hera2, taking it back to basics, did it ever occur to you that demanding the right to invade women's spaces with no discussion might not actually help the trans cause at all? That it might generate opposition and suspicion and fear, especially when those who have perfectly legit questions about it are being routinely shut down and accused of bigotry and phobias? That forcefully redefining who women are might be problematic if you don't actually include women in that discussion? That the question of self-ID and consequences of it (& people abusing it) may further damage the trans rights cause? Possibly irreparably?

The problem is that we've lived our whole lives observing, experiencing and being horrified by the lengths many men will go to in order to access vulnerable girls and women. We know how widespread it is, we know it because we witness it every single day of our lives.

This strategy isn't likely to endear the trans cause to anyone. If these concerns doesn't matter to transwomen then why on earth would you expect women to just pipe down and meekly accept?

As it's being suggested that the silly little women don't know what they are talking about, here's some hard evidence of the threats of violence against women that the so-called trans activists delight in - collected only over the past few days, it's really non-stop. The reason I shifted from being generally supportive and easy-going about trans activism is that it became apparent that it is being used by men/male born persons to joyfully threaten to kill/punch/burn women to death, for doing things such as asking 'what do you mean by 'feeling like a woman?' Not only that, it allows men who like to pay lip-service to women's rights for the sake of their self-image to openly threaten women with violence, whilst giving themselves a pat on the back for doing so. It's really opened my eyes to how hateful of women the whole movement is, as has the recent thread de-railers with their patronizing, sexist attitudes. I almost look forward to when the wokebros realise their game is up and they start backtracking when their utter misogyny is fully exposed. We won't forget, F*ers.

...that includes you "@liberal_smith!", struggling to quite understand why women are making such a fuss about being continually threatened with violence there. Twat.

eyerolls at Hera I never hear trans say anything different from men. we need to go read their stuff and listen to them them them long wallotext women are stupid and don't know what we are talking about boohoo what about their sad sad issues, ignores 25 pages of women's stories of heartbreak and horror. Hera is yet another peak trans moment, right here.

Yeah the attempts to stop women talking about our own experiences is a peak trans story all of its own.

Hera is yet another peak trans moment, right here.

Well quite. It's interesting, that in an attempt to derail, they have actually formed part of the narrative.

One thing I've noticed is they never, ever fucking learn.

It does show how the patriarchy came into existence though.

Because, quite evidently, it's not through brains.