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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hell yes Billy Porter

110 replies

JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 11:26

www.vogue.com/article/billy-porter-oscars-red-carpet-gown-christian-siriano

(Apols if there’s a thread already, I couldn’t see one)

Billy Porter wore a gown to the Oscars and I am LOVING his rationale as described in the Vogue article. Challenging gender stereotypes all the way. “I’m a man in a dress.” Bloody brilliant.

OP posts:
FermatsTheorem · 25/02/2019 17:36

Re. performing femininity - it's the Caitlin Moran test, isn't it? Are men expected to do it?

Men can shave beards or not as they choose. Turn up for work in a sharp designer suit with several different alternatives in their wardrobe, or wear the same rumpled suit every day of the year, even if presenting on TV (a male TV presenter tried this as an experiment - no-one even noticed). And all their shoes, whether smart designer or not, are comfortable, functional and waterproof.

The point is that women often are not afforded the choice of whether or not to perform femininity. Unshaven legs and skirt? No-no in most professional environments (it would be viewed as the equivalent of a man showing up in ripped jeans and an unwashed band tour t-shirt with the morning's fried egg dripped down the front). Same clothes to present the TV news every night of the year for a whole year? A woman wouldn't even make it through the first week. Functional shoes? Not professional enough. Not wear make-up? Risk getting taken on one side and told you're letting yourself go.

Don't get me wrong. Some of the time I find it entertaining to perform femininity. Most of the time, I can't be arsed. (Mercifully I am a scientific researcher by trade, so no-one really gives a shit what I look like, but it would be different in most professional jobs.) But the problem is that the pressure on women to perform femininity is much higher than any equivalent pressure on men, and you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you can't see this.

Floisme · 25/02/2019 17:49

Yeah the 'you all' annoyed me too Marguerita. You know perfectly well we're not a cult and we don't all speak with one voice.

That said, I've seen sneeriness about fashion and make up on here and I've been in a couple of spats about it - the one I remember best was after Harry and Meghan's wedding where there were some very patronising posts.

Guess what, we're all different. There are plenty of posters on here who are capable of enjoying fashion while still noting double standards and porno influences.

Speaking of posters who appreciate a nice dress - what's happened to Lass?

JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 17:52

See I can’t help but see this as positive because I’m so fed up of “women’s clothes” being seen as something men would never wear. The association being that if a woman wears trousers she is elevating her status, if a man wears a dress he lowers his. Because patriarchy.

So to be a man in a dress, to say that that doesn’t make him any less of a man, to be someone wearing clothes because they want to wear those clothes and not because those are the expected clothes and there will be negative consequences if they deviate... all that seems great to me.

Yes, women get criticised for their clothes. Yes, those clothes are often dresses. Personally I think making dresses more unisex is a step towards solving that problem.

OP posts:
JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 17:53

Bring on the men in dresses, basically Grin

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 25/02/2019 17:57

I think you'll find, @Floisme, that Lass might be wearing a Pink outfit these days...

ErrolTheDragon · 25/02/2019 17:59

Speaking of posters who appreciate a nice dress - what's happened to Lass?

Namechanged, and not gone very far at all. Grin

Floisme · 25/02/2019 18:05

Noooooo
Blush
Shock
Confused
Grin

In my defence - I don't think Pink and Lass sound at all like the same poster. But hey.

Floisme · 25/02/2019 18:10

Soz Pink if I have outed you. I'm happy to report my posts if you like?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/02/2019 18:13

I don’t like the top half. If your gonna wear a dress, go full ball gown!

Catsandbootsandbootsandcats · 25/02/2019 18:20

I think it's cool. And I love the cape he wore to the Golden Globes. Capes are so cool. I want a cape (I wanted one before but this has made me completely lust after a magnificent cape)

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 18:50

I didnt see it with the tux shirt

Im sure he just had a necklace on when he was on his way to the vanity fair party

IDoN0tCare · 25/02/2019 19:27

I don’t like the top half. If your gonna wear a dress, go full ball gown!

I absolutely loved the top half. Actually I lived the whole dress and would love to have the opportunity to wear something like that. I don’t really feel comfortable in most dresses, but I’d wear that in a heartbeat. He’s a lucky sod getting a chance to have a dress personally designed for him. Good luck to him, I say.

I would never have recognised him from Kinky Boots, but I suppose that was a few years ago.

IDoN0tCare · 25/02/2019 19:28

*lived = loved

IDoN0tCare · 25/02/2019 19:30

Mind you, all that velvet would be a disaster and I’d turn up covered in cat and dog hairs. 😬

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 25/02/2019 19:37

Superb.

And interesting how liberated he felt when he transgressed the gender stereotypes and continued to experience himself as male. Imagine what the world might be like if men believed their manhood to rest on their immutable existence, not on the adequacy with which they perform all the stupid masculinity rules

MargueritaPink · 25/02/2019 19:38

Yeah the 'you all' annoyed me too Marguerita. You know perfectly well we're not a cult and we don't all speak with one voice

You all was referring to the posters on this thread. I don't see any dissenting views on this thread.

As for being rude - I got accused of being a TRA on another thread ("TRA bingo" was the phrase) for expressing a view which went against the grain of that thread. I didn't complain but it was rude.

As for the name I went through about 4 names before settling on something with Lass. I've never hidden name changes since although before I hit on lass there was an extremely nasty call out by someone around names 2 or 3.

I like Lass. I picked it as a result of a thread where some posters were pontificating that lass was unnacceptable to use it for a grown up women (bore off)

However at the end of last year another poster picked a name with Lass in it and I kept seeing references to Lass which weren't me.

The dress is hideous. The top half doesn't go with the bottom half and the enormous skirt makes him look like a vampire version one of the Southern belles in full ante bellum splendour you find hanging around formal botanic gardens in the Southern states.

ICJump · 25/02/2019 19:47

I think he looks like a god. The dress is fabulous.

Floisme · 25/02/2019 19:50

Sorry to hear that Pink I've always enjoyed your posts even though I often don't agree. I find them refreshing.

I disagree about the dress too but then I have soft spot for the southern belle look.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 20:34

Sorry to hear that Pink I've always enjoyed your posts even though I often don't agree

Same

Ive still got a cobb on though

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 20:37

Like i say

He didnt have the shirt and tie bit on when i saw him

He had a necklace and the top was lower cut...im not fond of the shirt and tie

OlennasWimple · 25/02/2019 20:44

I'd always wondered where your previous name came from, MP

(Sorry for the derail)

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 20:56

I thought it was from a poem...

Sounded poemish

MargueritaPink · 25/02/2019 20:58

It started as ALassUnparalleled (from Anthony and Cleopatra and as used in the memorial to Vivien Leigh at Stratford-upon-Avon theatre gardens). I said I thought it was a beautiful epitaph which generated a pile on about how unenlightened (aka thick) I was.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 21:03

See

Poemish

MargueritaPink · 25/02/2019 21:04

The line is
Now boast thee, death, in thy possession lies
A lass unparalleled

I lost that name during the Jeffreygate debacle.