I declined the offer of being LGBTQ lead at work. Colleague who took the role no longer wants it.

[CosmicCanary]

She had the training on Friday and has since contacted me to tell me she does not want the role and asked why I declined it.

Bit of background.
I have over the years taken on various projects at work which have had good results. They are mostly around supporting the more minority groups of our client base. I enjoy these projects so was always happy to volunteer however I have avoided this new directive because I knew what the narrative would be and the focus of the training.

After speaking to the colleague that has taken on the role it seems I was right.

A full days training barely touched upon the LGB and focused mostly on the T and the Q.
The trainer spent the majority of the day discussing genders/pronouns/authentic self and how people should be labelled with lots of talk of if you are not LGBTQ you are cis and that is the correct label.
She said the L was mentioned for about 5 minutes.
My colleague is 31 and she thought she was quite inclusive and open minded however she has said the cis narrative and the focus on genders and lack of LGB in the training has made her feel "odd".
She said it was effectively trans training with the tone being you do and say as you are told to no questions.

She no longer wants the role as she feels she disagrees with the main focus as it is not inclusive of the LGB.
The turning point for her was when the trainer announced there are TW and cis women ( no mention of TM and cis men). Another person on the training asked why not just TW & women and was told that is not inclusive language and others transwomen so cis is used to differentiate women from transwomen.

She said that after the training the group sort of hung around to have coffee and most were a bit regarding the training and how to preform this new role as it suddenly does not seem to be what they first thought.

I have advised colleague to say that she is too busy to take on the role and ask if it can be offered out to the team again.

She has asked to chat more about being GC next week as she wants to understand more of whats happening.

Has the LGBTQ training started her in the road to peak transing do you think?

I guess you could call the trainer an idiot. That’s a genuinely held opinion.

If I go on a training course and we all have to state our names and preferred pronouns, is it ok to say 'My name is X and I prefer not to state my preferred pronouns?'

Genuinely asking because this is what I plan to say the first time it happens to me.

I’d ask why it was important? Then announce the ‘she’ is the cats mother.

Trousering I'm not sure why you would make out that I go round saying Im a woman. In what world exactly do you draw that conclusion? I was referencing the training course that the thread is the topic of, and because that was raised.

It is certainly not unreasonable to be unhappy about this and all the other ludicrous stuff going on that women and trans are feeling intimidated by and being actively threatened over, so please don't minimise how this feels for women who don't want to be erased again.

It's hard a big leap to make is it,considering what's been going on and what we're allowed to say. Only within the last couple of weeks police turned up on someonea door on here due to exactly this kind of ridiculousness, it was all false, but nevertheless, getting the police involved for stuff such as this is threatening.

So I don't think it's reasonable to try to minimise what's actually happening.

Your words were I'll be called a transphobe if I utter that outside to a trans individual

I asked you on the basis of your framing of that statement.

The thread is a serious issue, there is a serious discussion going on, I'm setting out the relevant employment law, not minimising. I am trying to assist the people raising employment law questions, spare me the fucking "erasing" insults.

Trying to pick through those posting a few sarky pointless unfunny "jokes" or complaints about things that are not actually happening, like saying I am a woman is illegal, makes it really hard to see the actual discussion.

But do carry on.

Feminist chat? I bet the fucking conversation at the bus stop would have less stupidity.

Well thanks for calling me stupid! Nice.

However as you correctly quoted me, I said if , and there absolutely could be circumstances in which i would want to state myself as a woman. Even from the pp on here we can see how often,and more frequently this is becoming a necessity that many are becoming too scared to do because companies/organizations are acting as if this is the law and making corporate policies that put women in fear.

It shouldn't be this complex to simply state you are a woman. I do think you are finding things to attack me over just for asserting how worrying this is.

I haven't sworn at you or called you stupid either, just saying

I am attacking the absolute nonsense that gets spammed all over these threads.

You posted about burning dictionaries. You are fear mongering.

Having seen the 'male physique' of 'Rachel McKinnon' I cannot even listen to the fluid sex/gender stuff being said on BBC. Apparently in international sport female is the same as the and same as woman.

If I were in that race, I'd exclude myself. There has always been sound reason for separation of the sexes in sport. I feel sorry for [the far more diminutive] women either side who got 2nd and 3rd.

No not fear mongering at all, as it reflects exactly the kind of nonsense that is actually happening ad states on these threads, and again I say...I haven't sworn at you or called you stupid.

You are not attacking the statements you are personally attacking.

OK Trousering a concrete example about things that are not actually happening, I have posted this before so you can see I haven't made it up just for you!

I am self employed. I go to networking sessions. They are a vital part of my lead generation and they can cost quite a lot of money!

Middle of last year I went to a new-to-me one and the first question the organiser asks, as she advances with a badge and a pen, is "What is your preferred pronoun?"

Nothing about hello new person, welcome, what is your business... no... What is your preferred bloody pronoun?

The room went quiet... heads did not turn but it was obvious those already in the room were waiting... I said "I don't have one. But my name is [Insert real name here]" and I wrote my name on the badge

She sucked a lemon or 3... glared at me and said that I was being incredibly rude not to give my personal pronoun, I was to look and see what the others had chosen, see which fitted me best. I looked... all the men had Mr/He all the women had Miss/Ms/Mrs/She.

She said I just had to declare my gender. I said my sex is female! She sucked more lemons then hissed that I neede to be careful not to be seen "as that person"

I stayed for the meeting, it was a freebie. Many of the other delegates smiled at me and one single woman came across and asked me if I was OK and that I had been very brave to challenge the organiser. After a while some of the others came across and thanked me. They were fully paid up members and were just waiting out their time. They disliked the procedure but didn't want to rock the boat... harm their businesses!

I never went back! Why would I?

But that room was full of self employed men and women who dared not demur for fear of harming their businesses. It bloody does happen.

You are right it is fear mongering... and that is what silences me and many other people out her in the real world!

As for burning dictionaries, you are aware of real life action being taken against women who use the dictionary defintion of 'woman' aren't you? That isn't fear mongering, that's fucking ridiculous, but it is happening!

Again, there are no book burnings going on. Posie's posters are proving the point that there are buffoons like the facilitor you met who are promoting this rubbish. I would have done exactly what you did at the session and refused to participate. There were no consequences were there. It made absolutely no difference whatsoever to the session that you refused. Other than the stupid Don 't be that person the facilitator had no other sanctions. Nothing adverse happened to you. Your books were not burned.

Look I work in HR in the same university as a woman who very publicly travels the world saying its all bollocks. We talk in HR about it all being rubbish. None of us would do any of the things people here believe employers would do. We just wouldn't. Stonewall have been in to say respect pronouns but no one other than the person who organised the training tells anyone their pronouns in meetings. It does not happen.

I am sorry you met such a buffoon and its a relief there's not too many of them.

Bully

That’s heartening to hear, that your HR department sees things clearly and is no nonsense Trouser.
I feel it’s really important to know your rights and protections and to have others around who are prepared to enforce them if necessary.

Thanks HumberElla.

There's too much dramatising going on currently, the majority of the population are not Orwellian thought police getting ready to burn books. Things like that are said over and over here which is creating a perception that actually doesn't match the reality.

Yes there's a few fanatics trying to prosecute people, but that's it, a FEW. Not thousands. Not even hundreds.

Again Trouser ? Does that mean that any 1 of us would have had to experience EVERYTHING on your list in order for any one of the items to be true?

There were no consequences were there. Oh but there were! Networking did not occur freely, business would, especially over time have been lost. That networking group has since folded, its goodwill, built up over a couple of years has been lost. Ex members have had to spend more time finding another to join. Time, money and effort were spent, wasted because of one persons ridiculous beliefs. THAT is the issue. Grown adults too scared to step up and say no because of one loud, strong willed individual in a (small) position of power. THAT'S THE POINT! Humans are sometime easily cowed (Milgram etc etc etc)

You may work in an open HR environment but you cannot have missed the reports of academics being requested to shut up, stop talking about female biology etc etc?

Posies posters - well you mentioned them. They also prove that large corporations will buckle under pressure from a single loud individual! THAT'S THE POINT!

Just because you have not experienced it does not mean that there isn't a every day Orwellian shite happening in large and small ways.

One day, hopefully soon, every HR department, government department, employer, employee etc etc will be like you say your department is. But until then some of us will remain careful of those "few fanatics" as we meet hem far too often in our real lives and have seen some face real consequences.

Did the network group fold because of poor leadership from that individual or because of pronoun requests from them?

In a disciplinary the facts have to be separated from the emotions. That's not one day in the future, that is now. The facts in MrPans case are that she is being harrased for her beliefs. The law disallows this and she should claim harassment which also provides protection from victimisation as a result of the harassment claim.

I'm being called a bully on here for asking people to calm down the emotional ramping up and to be factual. I am also being told to shut up because there are bullies around bullying every one into silence.

I think the 'emotional ramping up' as you call it may be because this is possibly the one place that women actually feel able to talk about this and discuss what is happening. It is happening. You cannot deny that.

You would think it would never happen that a male bodied convicted rapist could self identify as a female to go into a female prison and sexually assault women. It happened.

You would think that it would never happen that a woman would be interviewed by police for saying that women don't have penises It happened.

You would think that people would not be scared to state a simple truth but they are. It's happening. And it's everywhere.

If there had been no 'emotional ramping up' by women here in the UK, self ID might already have been made law here now, by stealth, without any consultation with women, as it has been in other countries.

trousering you've made some excellent points and it's really good to have someone from HR speaking here. I for one really appreciate your input.

Feelings are just running high, that's all.

We need new laws to cover all the changes that are being brought in. We need a definition of the words 'woman' and 'sex'. Especially in the EA 2010. We need to be sure that sex is still a protected characteristic.

I am just pondering the gulf between on the one hand women's liberation and on the other hand women being cowed by someone asking for their pronouns.

Is that really the hurdle we should fall at?
The current law worked to protect in the case I described earlier. We should be promoting this not catastrophising.

Listing out the scenarios in the post above, non of which are relevant to employment law, is simply reinforcing a belief that there are no solutions to problems which is patently not true.

I have been on a diversity course and did vocally remind the presenter that gender identity is not a protected characteristic.

I work with barristers in actual real discrimination cases of harassment.
Here is an example. <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.employmentlawworldview.com/uk-employment-tribunal-awards-3-2m-to-woman-called-crazy-miss-cokehead-by-colleagues/&ved=2ahUKEwjTtI_Zm9ngAhXxSxUIHavDDnAQFjAGegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3FOS-RMvBopZ_ak6AwOYG-" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.employmentlawworldview.com/uk-employment-tribunal-awards-3-2m-to-woman-called-crazy-miss-cokehead-by-colleagues/&ved=2ahUKEwjTtI_Zm9ngAhXxSxUIHavDDnAQFjAGegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3FOS-RMvBopZ_ak6AwOYG-

We stick with the current law, we don't deal with stealth ideas.

Trousered I completely agree with you but I think the problem lies in the gulf between the technical protection that women get from employment law and being in a position to use the law on your own behalf and the even bigger gulf between legal protection and the emotional reality of putting yourself in opposition to an institution and possibly your colleagues. I have been dismayed by the experiences of the OP and mrpan.

Boards like this are of some value to people who find themselves on the sharp end of all of this but if people are going to be properly helped then they are going to need proper legal and emotional support.What I find disquieting is that for every one person who is being subjected to action dozens more are being made to feel uncomfortable in these so-called courses. I don't have any personal experience of them but I really feel for those who do.

Clitherow

I agree with you completely. I am propsing that dialling down the hyperbolic and sarcastic posting and focusing on the support of women to exercise their legal rights should be a no brainer on a feminist board. I can see the wailing and nashing might be all some people need but there are genuine cases here being swamped by it, this reinforces a feeling of hopelessness.

It's frustrating that professional advice and support gets drowned out in this noise on a feminist chat board.