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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why feminists need to stop being nice and tell the Left to fuck off

54 replies

OrchidInTheSun · 15/02/2019 17:10

I'm paraphrasing but I bloody love this article : link.medium.com/kYNzydhGkU

OP posts:
DontCisgenderMe · 15/02/2019 22:27

Brilliant article, and so well timed.

We are told not to speak to people who might otherwise help us if they have ever so much as thought a thought not sanctioned by progressive politics [...] If only some of the men on the left owned a mirror.

The left is no less misogynistic than the right and neither serves the interests of women. Why is it any worse to align ourselves with someone who denies us the right to abortion and full reproductive autonomy than someone who quite literally advocates for our erasure as a sex class and as a consequence advocates for the destruction of human rights laws that protect us?

Yeahnahyeah · 15/02/2019 22:38

I shared with Ani that she has a mumsnet thread and she replied with this. She is doing a really hard job being outspoken on these issues in NZ and I applaud her efforts. THIS is stunning and brave. Flowers Ani.
twitter.com/aniobrien/status/1096535437609381888?s=19

GrinitchSpinach · 15/02/2019 22:47

Oh yeahnahyeah I'm so glad you were able to pass on our support. I want no part of Twitter. Maybe you could also tell her she's getting lots of love on r/GenderCritical? (Not as many comments there because of the ease of hitting a 'like' button)

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/aqtge9/misogyny_to_the_left_of_me_chauvinism_to_the/

LangCleg · 15/02/2019 22:48

For more on this, see the fabulous New Backlash:

thenewbacklash.blogspot.com/p/11-knee-jerk-sanctimony-of-left.html

And never forget the maxim: right wing men think women are private property; left wing men think women are public property.

FloralBuntingIsObnoxious · 15/02/2019 22:52

I've just had a lovely DM conversation with Ani too, just in case she hadn't seen this thread. It's an absolute honour to support her.

Having a day here, but these things keep you going.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 15/02/2019 22:53

that's a great article, I really enjoyed it

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 16/02/2019 01:54

It is a great article, and the new backlash one Lang linked is excellent too.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 16/02/2019 02:25

I’m sure this article has been posted before, but if you’ve not read it, it’s worth a read, particularly in the context of Ani O’Brien’s terrific piece.
www.abc.net.au/religion/transgenderism-the-latest-anti-feminist-wedge-of-the-left/10097710

Our memories aren’t long enough.

Remember when Stokely Carmichael was asked about the role of women in the civil rights movement?

“The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) attracted hundreds of idealistic young male and female activists, both black and white. Yet for all of the movement's commitment to racial equality, it failed to practice gender equality. The young men who led SNCC retained conventional notions of male superiority. They expected the women in the organization to cook meals, take notes, and defer to the men.

Once, when asked about the role of women volunteers in SNCC, Stokely Carmichael replied that the "only position for women in SNCC is prone."

Two white female activists, Casey Hayden and Mary King, wrote memos in 1964 and 1965 detailing their frustrations at the failure of the civil rights movement to recogniz issues related to women's concerns. They and others would eventually leave the civil rights crusade and helped organize the modern feminist movement.”
www.wwnorton.com/college/history/archive/resources/documents/ch34_02.htm

My own experience of left-wing organisations is that, no matter the rhetoric, women are still expected to do the washing up.

There is, in fact, a book by Australian writer Amirah Inglis, which is her memoir about being a member of the Communist Party in Melbourne in the 1940s. It’s called, The Hammer & Sickle and the Washing Up: Memories of an Australian Woman Communist

Kylie Tennant’s novel Ride on Stranger covers similar territory a decade earlier, (it’s a wonderful book).

Majority male organisations are rarely (never?), friends to women. Increasingly though, even female-centred organisations are not friends to women. Angry

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 16/02/2019 09:19

Why is it any worse to align ourselves with someone who denies us the right to abortion and full reproductive autonomy than someone who quite literally advocates for our erasure as a sex class and as a consequence advocates for the destruction of human rights laws that protect us?

This

Freespeecher · 16/02/2019 10:10

On the theme of women still being expected to cook and clean even in revolutionary movements, I recently read "The Good Terrorist' by Doris Lessing, which features a young woman squatting with her Hard Left group and proceeding to do the house up, cook etc.

Heartily recommended - it's clear that she's writing from her own experience and observations of such groups and human nature hasn't changed since it was written 40 odd years ago, and it could easily have been written today.

Oddly, when I googled it I was surprised to find it got some mixed to hostile reviews, especially for the writing style. I assumed it was from those who resented her ridicule of such groups but would be interested in the thoughts of any Lit Crit posters as it's the only Lessing I've read.

(Hope it wasn't too much of a diversion- I do think it's relevant).

Freespeecher · 16/02/2019 10:15

Picked up this after clicking onto Ani O'Brien's Twitter feed. Think with Spiked and the Speccie etc it's less about allies and more about being allowed to say your piece while being expected to back it up with facts. Wonder if it'll catch on?

twitter.com/CriticalSisters/status/1095363150227169282?s=20

OvaHere · 16/02/2019 10:20

That sounds interestingFreespeecher I'll check the book out.

Freespeecher · 16/02/2019 10:32

I first heard of it when Radio 4 dramatized it - girl goes home to ask her Mum for more money while calling her a fascist (I forgot to mention it's also funny).

Floisme · 16/02/2019 10:43

I've read The Good Terrorist and really enjoyed it but it was 30-odd years ago and I can't remember much about it now Blush But I can well imagine the far left trying to trash it. As for the style, as I recall it was more accessible than The Golden Notebook which took many false starts before I finished it.

Lessing does seem to have fallen off the literati radar. I cannot imagine why Hmm

Ani O'Brien Wine if you're reading this. I'll look out for more of your stuff.

IDoN0tCare · 16/02/2019 10:51

What a brilliant piece. She has articulated the discomfort and anger I felt when I was a union rep. Being expected to be a good rep, look after the members, but stay in my place during meetings. It was so obviously jobs for the boys, when it came to union activism and the more important roles.

Datun · 16/02/2019 11:45

I'm so glad of that article. I'm sick to the back teeth of being told how you can't associate with this person, or that person, because of an opinion they hold about something else entirely.

And yes, all it does is tie your hands ever tighter behind your back. No one, no one is good enough.

Make no mistake we know men outside of the left are not allies; they are resources and don’t you dare judge us for exploiting them

Women exploiting anything seems to be anathema to men who believe it should never be within their remit. Whilst allowing it to further their cause at every opportunity.

Brilliant article. And what a relief that someone can articulate the subject so comprehensively.

Bowlofbabelfish · 16/02/2019 12:02

Brilliant article. Spot on.

Badgerthebodger · 16/02/2019 12:09

Fabulous, wonderful article and so prevalent. I too am sick of the endless policing of who we are and aren’t supposed to associate with. It’s just another way to silence women - those pesky outspoken women, with their opinions and their wit and their refusal to give in and surrender meekly.

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 16/02/2019 12:14

I'm so glad of that article. I'm sick to the back teeth of being told how you can't associate with this person, or that person, because of an opinion they hold about something else entirely.

And yes, all it does is tie your hands ever tighter behind your back. No one, no one is good enough.

I'm not sure where this comes from, because I dont see it been held against men to such an extent. I don't see it in other issues apart from feminism, to be honest. It does seem to be a standard expected from the left rather than the right.

I don't know if the left aren't confident with debate, or that they think women are easily led?

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 16/02/2019 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LambChopsMcGee · 16/02/2019 12:31

Ani is a legend. Fearless against a lot of opposition in NZ and relatively alone in it. A great writer. Kia Kaha Ani!

OrchidInTheSun · 16/02/2019 12:33

I pointed out that Stonewall has created alliances between banks, the police and the corporate sector for years. No one has ever complained about mainstream GBT rights selling out or worried about whether or not the banking sector has a very strong rights record (it doesn't).

And yet women are held to impossibly high standards at all times. We are given no agency and no ability to do critical thinking. In short, we are infantilised.

OP posts:
BiologyIsReal · 16/02/2019 12:43

You only have to read Doris Lessing's autobiography, leave alone any of her novels, to understand the left's attitude to women. It's one of the reasons, although a 60s/70s feminist I would never align myself to the left.

They are are so far up their own bums virtue signalling they don't even see their hypocrisy.

With the far right you know you are dealing with devils and that's OK. With the far left it they simply cover their fork and tails with angel costumes.

Juells · 16/02/2019 12:52

or that they think women are easily led?

"Easily led" 😂 I like it - comes from having all those emotions, and weak brains 'n stuff.

FloralBuntingIsObnoxious · 16/02/2019 13:10

There is an odd sort of expectation that women will be primarily concerned with being friends with someone, to the point of excluding the people her friends disagree with, without engaging her silly little brain about facts and stuff.

Come on, now, girls. Don't you want to fit in?

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