Mixed-sex toilets in schools - children's actual views?

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Do we know what kids actually think about this? Planners & policy-makers seem to feel it's not a problem, and that it lessens bullying (no idea how) although it is currently illegal in Wales for children over 8 years old apparently.
Lleisiau Merched Cymru/Women's Voices Wales are asking for feedback from girls (or boys) who have mixed-sex toilets in their schools. Ideally from Wales but also from other parts of the UK. So is there any real-life evidence either way?

My organisation is introducing gender neutral loos to its large, ageing estate, so retrofitting to existing buildings. In my department we have a single self-contained loo which has been earmarked, leaving single-sex and disabled facilities untouched. In my colleague’s department (different building), it has meant reducing single-sex facilities. She said the male staff are so cross about it, they have started a petition to protest the change.

Jean thank you for the link, that really resonated and a lot of these women’s experiences and feelings are just as relevant to girls’ use of single sex toilets at school or college or public toilets.

Also this thread is relevant:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

Aside from all privacy reasons, I teach year 4 children and we have the mixed blessing that is two toilets at the end of the classroom. I have always, as a matter of course, designated one for girls and one for boys, and i can't tell you the relief the girls express at the beginning of the year to hear this, when it was a free-for -all in year 3 and they could use either one. Their primary reason is that "boys wee all over the seats." I'm not saying that girls don't sometimes do this, but a simple glance through the doors at the end of the day and the girls' cubicle is generally pristine and the boys'? Well,

Recently found out my kid’s 6th form college has unisex loos - would be interesting to know what the kids think about it.

I hate this idea, and I speak from a wee bit of experience, though not in the school environment. When I was around 19/20 I was grabbed from behind assault style by a man in a mixed sex toilet at my local gay bar. Thankfully it wasn't anything sexual, he shoved a bottle of poppers up to my nose, but I was terrified and I never used those facilities again.

Can't even begin to imagine the safeguarding issues surrounding this issue.

Toilets in my DCs secondary school have a wide opening that opens directly into main corridor - sinks in middle cubicles both sides one side male one female.

School like them as it means bullying and skiving is hard to do and one staff member at door, into open wing where that years classrooms come off, can see into them as well.

DD1 can't see an issue with them, DS hates them and tries to avoid using especially at busy times which DD1 think it odd.

DD1 hasn't had to use the tampax machines - she has stuff with her - there are on far wall at end of bank of sinks on full view to entire room and corridor. I’m not sure she would ever use them TBH as they are so visible.

Just asked DD9 if she would like to share the same toilets with the boys at schools. NO was her answer right away, when asked why she said it's weird and that the boys toilets stink.

I think a lot depends on the design- as an adult I've been happy to use some mixed facilities and not others.

I'm appalled by some school toilets, really short doors a tall child can easily see over so there is no privacy, no mirrors - I'm sure there are justifications for this but I think it's terrible not to be able to see whether you have pen on your face or if a spot is developing that you might want to stick some concealer on!

Just asked my two (13 year old girl and 15 yr old boy) and my dd said "no,that would be gross-the boys throw toilet paper all over the bathrooms and pee everywhere" and my son said "that wouldn't be fair to the girls and boys are gross! He also mentioned peeing-but said that not only do they owe on the toilet seats or on the floor but he has also seen bits peeing in the sinks....AND the soap eeeeeeewwwws

DS is 17 and couldn't give a flying fart apparently. With him it's more an age thing and can't be bothered with the younger children or either sex. He'd be happy with toilets split by juniors and seniors.

*of either sex...

I asked dd13 last night and she said "NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE". Although she did clarify that her school has single-sex toilet rooms with four or so stalls, sinks in a row outside the cubicles (which surprised me as the building is only ten years old). She is not at all willing to share this layout.

The other academy in our town, owned by the same chain, is much older building but has been retrofitted with floor-to-ceiling cubicles that include a sink; these are for everyone and open out onto a corridor in plain view of staff. Apparently these were put in place as an anti-bullying measure. She said she would probably be alright with that, as we've used them before when we've had sports classes there. I can't help but wonder what they're like when a thousand kids have used them, though. I also wonder at the thinking behind the different designs - although both schools belong to the same chain, they're very different in character (one known as "a bit rough and not very academic" and one being the more "tightly run high-flying academy" stereotype). It feels like the difference is more about class than wokeness in this case.

"I asked my year 5s this morning how they felt using mixed sex toilets. The vast majority said they were ok with it."

When I was 5 I didn't give a stuff about anything, and my parents bathed my sister and I together.
However that stopped when I was about 7, and I certainly wouldn't have been happy with mixed toilets/changing rooms at that age.

I would think very young kids wouldn't mind, but approaching/going through puberty would be horrendous for girls. They may not speak up as being branded a bigot would also be awful but I can't see them being happy (or safe really...lads at our school were constantly trying to get in the girls loos and apparently hundreds of kids are sexually assaulted/raped at school too)

I asked 14 year old DSD and she said she absolutely would not be happy. She also said she would speak up, but shes one of the 'popular kids' so speaking up would probably not earn her the bullying that other kids might get. She says none of her mates would want it either, which is what I expect tbh. Some lads won't be happy either, but others would be over the moon.

Brilliant posts, CharlieParley!

frames girls' distress at losing their human right to privacy, dignity and safety and their absolute right to asserting their boundaries around their own bodies against all male children, however they identify, as problematic, disrespectful or unjustified, it takes a brave girl indeed to raise her voice and say I don't want to share my toilets with boys.

Plus the mantra that if girls aren't kind and inclusive they must be 'educated' - or shifted elsewhere.

I can confirm from my time as a school cleaner that both girls and boys toilets are MINGING!
I don't think mixed toilets is a good idea though. Especially in secondary when girls are dealing with periods etc.

When I was a teenager I found the thought of other girls hearing my tampon wrapper rustling absolutely mortifying. I would have hated mixed sex bathrooms.

However I would also have been far too embarrassed to ever verbalise that to the school.

I have two male children and a male partner, and my dream for my own house is to have a bathroom of my own - and DP is fine, and the kids aren't bad (and are mine to train, so I have a certain amount of control over seat-wee-ers)

Boys toilets stink. Boys can use urinals, which means that they can fit more wee-units into one space, so there will be fewer toilets over all if all are unisex (so presumably urinals are removed - I might stride past weeing men if I wanted to, but I don't think kids should have to).

It's a bad idea on all levels, and my boys would hate it too.

Just thinking about this some more, there are unisex toilets at are local climbing centre. While on the whole I don’t have an issue, I must say it makes me want to vomit to have to put the toilet seat down and flush the loo then wash my hands BEFORE I use it! Wether it’s men or kids I’ve no idea. There is often pee on the seats and loo roll on the floor too - but it is frequented by children. They are individual toilets and there isn’t the space for a parent to go in with them. It’s not a pleasant experience.

I'd bet a lot of money that no schools have consulted children (let alone parents) before imposing mixed sex toilets on pupils.

My DC have unisex cubicles and sinks to share outside the cubicles. DD1 (9) says they are disgusting. Covered in wee and unflushed. She thinks single sex would be much better. DD2 (6) tells me how she always has to wipe the seats before sitting down.

TBH with consultation and surveying i think it’s essential to gather views and to engage people in discussion but on the other hand in the highly unlikely event that 100% of the kids and teachers all said to hell with having single sex toileting... there will still be some kids for whom mixed sex toileting is a total nightmare and for their sakes single sex must be retained. Third spaces are the way forward.

Can I also say that your posts were brilliant CharlieParley.

Next bit might be a bit triggering to some.

I was groomed and sexually abused (including rape) as a girl between the ages of 7 and 13.5 by an adult male relative. If I had been asked at age 10 if I had a problem with mixed-sex toilets I would probably have said no (provided they didn't smell and were clean) however at that age I had such a poor idea of what was an acceptable way for others to treat my body that, on several occasions, I accepted two boys removing all my clothes and 'exploring' my body. I had no real concept of boundaries.

If I had been asked at the same question at the age of 13. I would also have answered that I had no problem with mixed-sex toilets because I was so scared that my secret would be discovered and what the consequences could be. An anonymous survey would have made no difference. I wouldn't have risked it. Actually it was learning at this age what boundaries were that enabled me to massively reduce my contact with my abuser and stop most of my abuse. It would have been harmful to me (and my attempts to escape my abuse) to learn that my boundaries should be overridden in order to be kind and inclusive.

If I had been asked at age 15 or 16 (after the death of my abuser) if I minded mixed-sex toilets I would have answered no. I would have been scared that someone would have questioned why and figured out my 'shameful' secret. However it was at about this age that the nightmares and flashbacks started and I started to find it increasingly difficult to be around almost all males particularly if I felt vulnerable in anyway.

By the age of 18, I had been raped once more and sexually harassed many times, I expect I would have excluded myself from anywhere with mixed-sex facilities. However if I had not excluded myself then I would have certainly suffered from more anxiety, flashbacks and nightmares.

I agree with CharlieParley that under Article 39 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child that sexually abused girls have the right to all appropriate measures to promote their physical and psychological recovery and social reintegration and that such recovery and reintegration shall take place in an environment which fosters the health, self-respect and dignity of the child. Schools and teachers should be taking this seriously, alongside the need to safeguard an abused girl's mental health and her wellbeing and development. Due to the well documented number of girls who do not reveal their abuse to any responsible adult during their childhood then it is appropriate that impact assessments should take this into account and protect all girls on the basis that sexual abuse is known to be so common and is perpetrated disproportionately against girls.

Chicken Your account of your experiences and your fear of disclosure is really powerful.