The Making of Me, anyone watching?

[Destinysdaughter]

It’s about pp changing their gender identity on C4 now

I think the photos thing is totally understandable. I think they came up with a good solution in taking new photos.

I think the photos thing is totally understandable. I think they came up with a good solution in taking new photos.

Understandable, maybe, but neither fair nor reasonable. I'm not sure why your past life should be so off limits. Trying to pretend it was never real - just because you now feel another way. It happened. It is part of you; but it is also part of other people's lives and their memories too.

How did these types of people be themselves before cross sex hormones and cosmetic surgery?

This is the crux of it, isn't it. So much of the rise of transgendersim has arisen out of medical and surgical advances, and the subsequent promotion of them.

Justhadathought

"I'm not sure why your past life should be so off limits. Trying to pretend it was never real - just because you now feel another way. It happened. It is part of you; but it is also part of other people's lives and their memories too."

But imagine if you married and your parents put a big photo (or even small one) of you and hubby/wife in the hall eat. When you split up they refused to take it down because it was part of their memories? Bit it's noe part of your past and may r one you desperately want to move away from? Would that be fair?

hall way

Their whole lives are about controlling other people.

Scott strikes me as an overconfident young adult who knows better than the professionals. 'I'll transition come hell or high water I won't change my mind'.

LangCleg I think the control element comes from feeling that they want to remake things in the way that makes sense for them. It's not that I am defending it but simply that it is perhaps the best way for them to cope.

scotsheather It didn't strike me that Emma/Scott was confident at all, just desperate.

Really enjoying this series, i think they’re doing a good job and great idea to how their progress over several years.

The male doctor who Jay saw, think I recognised the name (but can’t remember it now) - isn’t he well known?

Youthful 'desperation' can take you down a very dangerous path, often ignoring voices of reason who just don't want you to make a mistake you may regret.

LangCleg I think the control element comes from feeling that they want to remake things in the way that makes sense for them. It's not that I am defending it but simply that it is perhaps the best way for them to cope.

No, Italian. Human relationships are reciprocal and there will be no happiness or contentment for any party involved in a controlling relationship until those who do not understand this, understand it. There is no point writing articles, as we so often see, about how nobody will date you if you are a controlling narc in all your relationships. It's the control, not the identity, that makes relationships fail. This applies to everyone, regardless of trans identification.

Controlling relationships are malignant relationships. They are at the heart of most domestic/intimate abuse, causing so much damage that we are currently trying to find a way to legislate against them.

Nobody has a responsibility to maintain a relationship that is on only one party's terms, or to be required to manage another's identity for them. I would never enter into any kind of relationship with a controlling person - intimate, friends, anything. And I would advise everyone else the same.

Trans is not an excuse for controlling behaviour. End of.

scotsheather "Youthful 'desperation' can take you down a very dangerous path, often ignoring voices of reason who just don't want you to make a mistake you may regret."

Yes, I totally agree. I think I fell asleep towards the end so did not get to see if Emma got the meds she wanted. I felt it was a terrible situation. Some medication safer than others, but not accessible due to very long waits. And then the accessibility of dangerous medication over the internet. All a witches brew of bad things.

LangCleg I totally see where you are coming from but a parent of a trans identifying youth or child is not entering into a relationship with them, they are already in a relationship with them. Children, child or as adults, can attempt to control their parents and vice versa. I think it is hard to work out where control is actually a parent lovingly guiding a child (e.g. setting parameters for what they can wear etc or a child saying they are grown up now and will do things their own way!)

The issue here is that Emma/Scott is now an adult and lives with mum or dad. So E/S has a choice to move out. But probably, (I am guessing) mum and dad are happy to have them still at home. So it is working out who gets to do what.

This is something that probably a lot of parents do struggle with. How much children (adult or otherwise) get to dictate things in their lives/their parents lives. On paper (or the internet) we might say one thing but in our lives it's another thing.

I see the E/S desire to remove the photos (because they cause distress) as being relevant and the parent eventually accepted their child as Emma. Or appeared to. This meant they and their child were happier. And they found a way forward. I think that is good. Not just for E/S but for their mum too.

It would be a whole different thing, to me, if we were talking about the women with trans identifying husbands. I think those poor women stayed when maybe they should have broken lose and chosen to live their lives without their partner. But as a parent, it is a totally different thing, IMHO.

"Trans is not an excuse for controlling behaviour." I agree but I think it is so much more complex than that.

I didn’t think Emma’s behaviour was that unusual or different from many teenagers/young people in regards to family.

I definitely felt positive about Emma and her mum, Emma was not doing this with a wife who was really unhappy, Emma was choosing this before getting married etc.

I actually though this episode was more rounded and I was delighted that Jay chose to de-transition/desist

It was good that they talked about the dangers of unregulated drugs, that those who do de-transition or desist also present as being very determined, and indistinguishable from others before they de-transition or desist.

A woman directly affected by this programme has now found the Trans Widows thread, thank goodness.

Imagine being such a narcissist that you agree to take part in a programme like this before you've even told all of your offspring that you are trans? Although I don't know why I'm surprised.

tinsel I don’t post on the transwidows thread because it’s not my place to do so, but having read it, my heart breaks for the wives and the similarities in their stories is breathtaking. How their husbands can be so utterly self absorbed and devoid of is beyond me. I read something a while back about the overlap between AGP and personality disorders - if I ever find it again I’ll ping it over

and to all of you.

I actually think this programme was good this week.

The poor devastated wives though. My heart goes out to them.

They are discussing this on Gogglebox. It's the last 10 minutes or so of the programme.

Some excellent comments form the Gogglebox viewers. Except for the bloody poppadom comment at the end!

What did the Goggle box viewers say?

Just saw the latest episode. I would have liked to have heard from Jay/Janelle's family again after the decision to detransition...also, Jay/Janelle spoke about carrying a child which I thought was interesting in the context.

Scott/Emma seemed stubborn and spoiled and I'd like to know if the parents knew about the possibility of liver damage with the drug she was self-medicating with...even self-medicating seems wrong considering that he was perfectly healthy...anyway, I liked that the first female doctor said that even those who say they are sure still change their minds. It was important to have that represented.

I was devastated for Marie, that poor woman. How you could maintain a marriage in those circumstances I don't know. It's pretty hard for me some days and my DH is a man and still wants to be one!

What did the Goggle box viewers say?
Very sympathetic to the partners MenstruatorExtraordinaire. They came across as sympathetic to individual trans people but definitely not beardy woke.

I'm just watching episode 2 now. Poor Marie - I hope she finds her way to these boards.

It's the eradication of other people's history that is so upsetting. Expecting your mum to have no memories of your childhood is so much to ask.