Sunday Times Front Cover. Trans Prison wings

[RedToothBrush]

Well.

Social contagion or trend? You might say...

Or even induced, Red?

Found her threads:

twitter.com/jennyrossity/status/1067498512252837889

twitter.com/jennyrossity/status/1067461985216942082

Thread begins: we should be afraid that in a cohort of 120 sex offenders given anti-androgens in prison almost half then decided to transition.

Note: this is to prevent re-offending and not a result of trans prisoners requesting hormones.

They got the idea from OITNB, Happy.

Presumably those drugs are only given to prisoners with their consent? I still have reservations though.

Edward Lord must be raging.

He instructed The Times to prevent Andrew Gilligan from writing about transgender issues, saying that it was a "fetish" for Gilligan.

And here Gilligan is again, out and proud with the "fetish".

Presumably those drugs are only given to prisoners with their consent?

Not the point the Twitterer is making. The point is: has this treatment induced a trans identification.

Finally, absolutely absurd to put women at risk instead of doing this from the start. Only hope they give extra thought and protection to any post operative transexuals who may be at risk from pre op sex offending trans women...

"Chemical castration" is a phrase we need to challenge. I'm sure if you spoke to members of the public about their understanding of what it means, most would venture a guess along the lines of it being permanent etc.
It's not at all, it's meds that we are trusting the most untrustworthy men on earth to keep taking to make themselves safe for our benefit. We don't trust them to lock themselves in prison, why trust them to take Lupron?
In a prison environment, it makes sense. Outside? They sell it on.
It's a daft idea especially considering the cost.

Yes I understand the point. But my question still remains. I suppose it might change to ‘if drugs are given to prisoners with their consent, are they told that increased gender dysphoria may be a side effect’.

Does the U.K. not use depo provera for sex offenders, rather than lupron?

FlyingOink - I think they started it in the wake of the previous anti-recidivism initiative that failed so badly it actually increased it. The fools had a group therapy scheme, which the offenders spent giving each other ideas. I think, if we know one thing, it's that the authorities don't have the faintest idea how to keep women and children safe from these men and everything they do makes it worse, not better.

Yes, I of course think that all trans prisoners need to go in the trans estate. Prisons need to be sex segregated.

Separate wings would be great. I think that would solve alot of issues.

One issue indent know how they will solve is staff.

Strip searches etc.

Will female staff be expected to pat down trans women?

If this does jn fact reduce the number of prisoners who claim to be trans then what will they do about socialisation?

I foresee some extreme mental health issues from.possible isolation.

Having said that I think its only fair. Because you can't go risking the safety of women in prison.

and they have to be careful not to make it sound like a MTF wing isn't safe.

Good point. And if they're all 'women' it can't be invalidating either.

Datun - yeah it's totally win win. There is no argument. If TWAW then if that wing is for TW by their logic it's a women's wing and by our logic we keep them separate from women to keep them safe and everyone is safe from men.

Well done to everyone who’s been speaking up about this

It that defeats the point doesn’t it? I thought the whole goal was to gain access 100% to women’s spaces.

Oh dear, I fear feelings will be mortally wounded.

But if TWAW then it is 100% women's space. Only GC people think otherwise.

They could have self ID officers too so female officers aren't at risk.

Will female staff be expected to pat down trans women?

I'm sure one of the male staff could self identify as a woman (Pips Bunce style) when some self identified piss taker needs to be searched.

They could have self ID officers too so female officers aren't at risk

Perfect!!!

Wonder if, should there be a significant reduction in prisoners presenting as trans, would there then be a government enquiry into whether it really is all about validation.

Whether if the only validation they receive is from.other trans people will it give them the same sense of accomplishment.

To be a devil's advocate: it's not as simple as saying "trans wings, sorted". Prisoners are housed according to risk. You can't have trans wings in which Cat C non violent, non sexual offenders are banged up with Cat A violent or sexually predatory offenders. It's a small population and resources are highly limited.

(Not saying prisons shouldn't be sex segregated, full stop. They should.)

Wouldn't they have a trans wing in a couple of prisons and divide them up according to that? So you've got a category a prison with its trans wing then elsewhere a category c prison with that trans wing.

It's an amazing breakthrough anyway and it shows how important sex segregation is and given how little they care about female prisoners it's massive. Big thanks to Karen White...

Don't think the category is a problem - they're all cat A aren't they...

Lang they seem to manage security risks with female prisons though don’t they? They could do that with trans wings too. Like female prisoners, those too dangerous could be housed in the male estate.

Funky - yes. And a projected population of 1,000 will clearly be easier to manage than one of 125. But anyone interested in the disastrous state of our prisons and prisoner welfare generally, regardless of trans issues, will not want to see low risk prisoners housed with high risk prisoners, or prisoners accommodated so far from home that visits are impossible. Continued contact with family is essential for prisoner welfare while serving and also cuts the likelihood of recidivism on release.

I'm just saying that prisons are complicated. I don't think any variance from strict sex segregation should be happening, but that doesn't mean that I don't see it's not simple for the prison authorities to work out what to do with trans inmates.