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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Guardian vulvas...

80 replies

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 09/02/2019 21:11

It's there anything female the Guardian covers without feeling the need to include a male?

Surgical constructions are not the same as the female sex organs and it's insulting they have to be included in a feature on vulvas. Of 8 examples here, one is a male...

Me and my vulva: 100 women reveal all

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/09/me-and-my-vulva-100-women-reveal-all-photographs?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

OP posts:
HermioneWeasley · 09/02/2019 21:13

Neve seen a TW neo vulva before so that was interesting. Can’t believe anyone would be fooled by that. I think they did have a trans man in the equivalent “me and my penis” article

MrSlant · 09/02/2019 21:16

I have to say I thought the whole thing was fascinating, inclusively for once! Also I think what the trans woman had to say about her neo-vulva was interesting. I thought everyone was pretty interesting, and brave and very informative.

MrsWooster · 09/02/2019 21:19

I'm firmly on the fence here! My first instinct was sane as yours op, then I thought seeing the tw neovulva was fascinating and her write up was forthright and honest- it's not a vagina and I'm not a woman.
Properly got the hump,tho, over the interviewer asking the author if she thought the title 'womanhood'is appropriate cos trans...

rubisco · 09/02/2019 21:21

For what it's worth, the corresponding "me and my penis" feature back in 2017 included a woman:
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/27/me-and-my-penis-100-men-reveal-all

And the transwoman whose neovulva is featured takes a line I think most on here would agree with:

Let’s be up front about this: I don’t have a vagina. I would describe mine as a neo-vagina. I’m not a real woman. I’d have loved to have been one, but that didn’t happen for me and I have to make do. I can’t claim womanhood. I have a different body to women, I have different biology, different needs, I grew up differently. I don’t think it should be something to feel embarrassed or shamed about. I’m a transwoman, and that’s fine by me.

Original poster
Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 09/02/2019 21:25

Actually, I will row back because the featured individual who was very specific in that she wrote:

"Let’s be up front about this: I don’t have a vagina. I would describe mine as a neo-vagina. I’m not a real woman. I’d have loved to have been one, but that didn’t happen for me and I have to make do. I can’t claim womanhood. I have a different body to women, I have different biology, different needs, I grew up differently. I don’t think it should be something to feel embarrassed or shamed about. I’m a transwoman, and that’s fine by me."

And I'm on side with that and really respect the writer for acknowledging the difference.

I was cross because vulvas are specifically female biology and I felt the Guardian went out of the way to broaden the terms. But the individual featured seems sound!

OP posts:
MeteorShower · 09/02/2019 21:26

I like what the transwoman had to say! And feel absolutely fine about the picture/story being included.

(And I'm a totally GC feminist)

Funkyfunkybeat12 · 09/02/2019 21:27

To be honest I would not have been able to pick out the trans person by looking at them all. Maybe I need glasses but it doesn’t look that unrealistic and, as the gallery shows, everyone looks different.

Hulo · 09/02/2019 21:35

I was fine with the transwoman being included because she was completely honest about who she was and her difference.

She was a transwoman. I can live with that

ChesterGreySideboard · 09/02/2019 21:45

I just finished reading the article and came here to find the thread. They tackled the whole female = vagina issue in the write up and a liked what the TW said about her vagina. I think she was a valid inclusion and had a good point to make.

WarpedGalaxy · 09/02/2019 21:46

“I’m a transwoman, and that’s fine by me.” It’s fine by me too. That actually brought a tear to my eye, simple dignity and acceptance that she is not a woman and why it matters to women to acknowledge that.

Any TRAs reading here? She gets it, why can’t you?

Original poster
Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 09/02/2019 21:47

Yes Hula , I agree about the individual featured. She was completely honest. I think I had a bit of a knee jerk! It's a topic that is still so shrouded in shame and mystery though, that it would be nice to give women the chance to explore it for a bit first.

OP posts:
Ihuntmonsters · 09/02/2019 21:52

The 'not female' moment for me was the torso photo not the close up, and that's how I felt about the penis shoot too. It's more than just the genital plastic surgery, it's the whole body shape being different. Looks like an interesting project and I liked the way that the photographer talks about it. I remember feeling like that about the penis equivalent, but now I'm wondering if the Guardian interviewer had an issue with that being called 'Manhood' and rather suspecting not. Having said that there are some quite non woke references in the article, in particular the idea that 'front holes' as a description is harmful.

NeurotrashWarrior · 09/02/2019 21:59

I found this fascinating.

At first I too was thinking, oh here we go.

The TW has made a big point doing this. In the guardian. And I can't help suspecting she's deliberately participated in order to make that point; that they're not a woman, their biology is different, and they can't claim to be a woman.

FactsAreNotMean · 09/02/2019 22:14

I wish more TW would speak like the one in the article. Candid, clear, accepting of reality.

I rather suspect they would never have referred to their "lady dick" either!

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2019 22:19

Yeah
Th3 person was dead clear that they wasn’t a woman.
Tha5 was cool

RockyFlintstone · 09/02/2019 22:20

Holy crow!

To be fair though, like others have said, the transwoman featured sounds like a good'un to be honest.

I had never seen a neo vagina either. Interesting.

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2019 22:20

Was gr2t article
How different we all look

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2019 22:21

I never seen my own 😂😂

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2019 22:22

It’s not like a dick where you see it every day

Craftycorvid · 09/02/2019 22:25

The bit that irked me was the cover ‘warning’ about the vulvic imagery- never knew my old girl was so dangerous!

Thought the neo-vulva looked pretty darned good and the transwoman’s views were balanced, honest and respectful.

Craftycorvid · 09/02/2019 22:26

I’m not featured, by the way! Just realised how that could be read Grin Just the idea of vulvas being so dangerous they need a warning.

MargueritaPink · 09/02/2019 22:53

I would be happy not to have seen any of them.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 09/02/2019 22:57

Being a cynic where the Graun is concerned, I wondered if they were playing the long game here. Most people hear TW and think this kind of sensible pragmatist is what is meant. The lady dicks and LMs are lost on most. Which then makes feminists into the screeching harpies, because why would any reasonable woman have a problem with this?

McTufty · 09/02/2019 23:09

I thought in this context it was great to include a trans woman and I was very interested in what she had to say. I’m very pleased that the operation worked out for her and I think it looks very realistic.

Someone linked to the me and my penis article above. That worked out rather less well for that trans man. He said he has just had a lot of “unhealthy rejection”. I feel very sad for him.

OnTheHop · 10/02/2019 04:51

“I ask Dodsworth if it feels right to call a project about vulvas Womanhood, since it implies that sex equals gender”

Quoth interviewer.