The Big Questions on now - is feminism in crisis?

[Lefty99]

To be discussed as next topic. BBC1.

Finn doesn't look anything like a man < shrug>

I don’t think she does, no, but I don’t think she is lying when she speaks about her experience.
A thread was deleted this morning when someone mistook Paulette Edwards on Woman’s Hour for a man and called her a pervert. She sounds nothing like a man.

Thanks for clarifying funky.

Yes

Thank you funky

Ironically for such a proponent of free speech, Jane is very much in favour of the no platforming of holders of rather more standard feminist views such as Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel.

Free speech for men who enjoy violent porn. No free speech for women who oppose violent porn. So feminist.

Jane Fae was also featured last year on the BBC Big Questions episode about gender self-id with Heather Brunskill-Evans.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3267012-The-Big-Questions-BBC-should-you-be-able-to-self-declare-your-gender

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of times for male/female guests and female/male-centric comments in that debate.

The London Feminist Network which was set up by Finn was split by what was felt to be her lack of support for gender critical feminists. And the fall out was not just the LFN has become an empty shell, but that Reclaim the Night in London is considered compromised by its inclusion of trans women. It also meant that what had been the Feminism in London conference was co-opted into a queer political conference (cant remember what it was called) and then stopped. Although later revived as FiLia, also politically confused and turning into a cheaper version of WoW.

And for those who think that gender critical feminism only reallly started with the proposed changes to the GRA, it was this issue going back almost to the start of LFN which was a constant cause of tension which were never resolved. Although you could say it led to groups like LRA and so on.

The lesson seems to be obvious: keep men out of women's groups.

I liked what Finn McKay said, especially how she brought in the writings of 2nd wave feminists.

I can't make out her position overall and there have been a few things she has said in recent months that have alarmed me but I thought she was very good here.

There's a moment in the earlier discussion about children and social media, someone says 13 y/o's are old enough to navigate social media (something like that) and then there's a shot of extreme porn advocate Jane Fae nodding vigorously

Feminism may well be in crisis. Because of capitulating to men. Currently, feminism seems to be an academic discipline that is beholden to men.

I'll go for Women's Rights and Women's Liberation, instead! Male exclusionary, no matter how "woke" they identify!

Linda Riley? Feminist? Profited from murder of women? Read ripperologist45.pdf Court case and judges comments about her mother? FEMINIST?????

Linda Riley? Feminist?

Linda Riley's comment on the The Big Questions program was that she thought it was important that working class women's voices should be better represented in feminism.

I was a bit

Got a reply from the BBC who predictably don't get it and think I'm just a bit transphobic bigot who doesn't think Jane Fae should be on the telly. My point is that they described Jane as a 'feminist'. I think by any objective measure of what Jane says and does there is no way you could regard Jane as a feminist. By endorsing Jane's self identification as a feminist the BBC give it legitimacy.

If I as a labour party member asked to be described as a Conservative Activist on a programme called 'are the Tories Bastards?', would the BBC be cool with that?

Anyway, here's the response in full:

Thank you for contacting us about BBC One's 'The Big Questions' broadcast 3 February.

We understand you felt Jane Fae was an inappropriate choice of guest.

The programme was asking the question if feminism is in crisis and heard from a range of different contributors. The programme heard from the likes of Dr Finn Mackay, Dr Shelia Jeffreys and Linda Riley all presenting their own view on the current state of feminism.

Jane Fae is one of many contributors to the programme while we appreciate you may disagree with her view, a programme such as 'The Big Questions' aims to include as many differing viewpoints as possible, this promotes lively debate and allows our audience to make up their own mind of any subject discussed.

Overall we are confident that a range of viewpoints from across the political and religious spectrum were heard on the programme.

Nevertheless we do appreciate your feedback on this issue and as such I have sent your complaint directly to senior management as well as the programme’s production team via our Audience Feedback Report. This report is among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and can help inform decisions about future programming.

Let's hope some people with their brains switched on read the feedback about Jane's advocacy for extreme porn and realise that despite the knitting Jane is not really all that wholesome

Nevertheless we do appreciate your feedback on this issue and as such I have sent your complaint directly to senior management as well as the programme’s production team via our Audience Feedback Report. This report is among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and can help inform decisions about future programming.

It would be good for BBC senior management to scrutinise the BBC's apparent frequent invitation to Jane Fae.

Fae is invited on many BBC programs acroos TV and radio stations with no apparent scrutiny of their position as 'feminist commentator' or woman with trans experience etc

Yes, I have followed up the complaint to reiterate that my objection is not to Fae themselves but to the BBC uncritically presenting Fae as a feminist. The BBC has a responsibility to ensure they’re being factually accurate

The BBC has a responsibility to ensure they’re being factually accurate

I agree with you, but I don't think you'll get much of an answer from them about whether or not Fae is a feminist. A feminist is whoever says they are one. People like Maria Miller and Lynne Featherstone argue that we're not feminists because we disagree with them.

I agree that describing Fae as an 'extreme porn advocate' would have been more accurate than 'feminist writer', but if Fae says that Fae is a feminist, who are we to disagree?

Oh yes, I’ll get fobbed off again

But my aim is to make it painful for the bbc to legitimise male feminists who have no actual feminist credentials

So I’ll

So I’ll keep politely complaining that should have said

A feminist is whoever says they are one.

I identify as is the curse of the early twenty first century.

I'm increasingly convinced that we should be using feminist as a verb or an adjective.

LangCleg

Yes! "I identify" has replaced "I find that offensive" (used as the full stop for any debate) as the teeth-grinding phrase du jour.

I'm increasingly convinced that we should be using feminist as a verb or an adjective.

How does this work? I'm pretty sure the BBC caption for Jane Fae was 'feminist author' or something similar - so used as an adjective. How do you use feminist as a verb?

Have I misunderstood something here?

I identify as is the curse of the early twenty first century.

Agree with this, though.

How does this work?

I suppose in terms of distancing ourselves from the likes of Fae?

Perhaps, as others have suggested, we should go back to calling it women's liberation and ourselves liberationists?

I mean, I agree that third wave feminism is in crisis, since it is now all about the men.