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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman submits human rights complaint about encountering Oger in women's bathroom

75 replies

QuietContraryMary · 30/01/2019 21:44

This is the BC Human Rights Tribunal, currently forum for a certain ball-waxing trans-gender child tampon fetishist to pursue a grievance.

dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-woman-human-rights-complaint-trans-bathroom

Also currently the forum of M. Oger, formerly R. Oger, a big-time TRA & Canadian politician who has been complaining that a bloke hurt h* feelings by misgendering h*, and this constitutes a serious human rights breach by that bloke. (see here: www.freenorthamerica.ca/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10624 for what he said)

Anyway, Kari Simpson has said she heard M. Oger in the ladies' bathroom at the Human Rights Tribunal:

"she heard a loud male voice” talking to other people in the washroom, and recognized the voice to be that of Morgane Oger

The incident “was disturbing and distressing,” the complaint reads. “Her security of a person was violated, she remained in the stall until she was certain that the biological man, Oger, had gone for fear of being bullied.”

Simpson said in a release that “this assault on women’s rights must end. Men wearing puppy dog ears/tails, pony gear, wigs and/or lipstick, chemically and cosmetically altering their appearance and self-declaring themselves to be a dog, a pony or a woman does not change their biological reality of being a human male.”

“Men suffering from delusion, gender dysphoria, fantasy, nefarious intention, or simply addicted to a hyper-sexualized kinky game of female dress-up, among other factors, do not get to trample on my rights… to security of the person, privacy, dignity, decency, and services directly affected by my protected rights as a female,” she added. “It’s time to end this dangerous game of lunacy.”

In the complaint, Simpson said she would like to see, among other things, an apology from the BCHRT to “all members” of Culture Guard, all washroom/change room signage inviting use by Trans people or similar wording to be removed and replaced with Women Only or Men Only wording, an amendment to the BC Human Rights Code to define Gender identity and gender Expression as “cosmetic, costume, or outward projection of a person,” and a combined total of $180,000 in damages.

“A free and civil society respects any individual’s right to free expression, but those rights end where another’s begin,” said Simpson. “It’s time to stop lying to people—especially children.”

OP posts:
sackrifice · 30/01/2019 21:46

Can't argue with that.

AnyOldPrion · 30/01/2019 21:50

Good!

GCAcademic · 30/01/2019 21:58

The comments under the article are interesting and suggest that an awful lot of Canadians are refusing to succumb to Correct Thinking.

terryleather · 30/01/2019 22:02

“Men suffering from delusion, gender dysphoria, fantasy, nefarious intention, or simply addicted to a hyper-sexualized kinky game of female dress-up, among other factors, do not get to trample on my rights… to security of the person, privacy, dignity, decency, and services directly affected by my protected rights as a female,” she added. “It’s time to end this dangerous game of lunacy.”

GrinGrinGrin

QuietContraryMary · 30/01/2019 22:06

Here's the complaint

www.cultureguard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Filed-BCHRT-Bathroom-Complaint-Jan-24-2019.pdf

They identify themselves as a protected group:

"Married and/or widowed biologically heterosexual Christian females, that gender identify and express as women, and have given life to both biologically provable male and female human beings/children, who also share membership in an organization called Culture Guard, and who are members of numerous groups identified in and protected by the BC Human Rights Code and are active in their democratic responsibilities and in doing so attended a BC Human Rights Tribunal hearing conducted at the BC Human Rights Tribunal Vancouver offices and were forced, due to the BC Human Rights Tribunal bathroom signage and policy, to forfeit the shield of protection of their BC Human Rights Code protected rights as Christians, and as biological females— presenting and identifying as females— had to endure personal indignity and the humiliatingly discriminatory abuse of the Attorney General ("AG"), BCHRT Tribunal chair, and Jane or John Doe by being forced to share a "women's" bathroom with biological males. **
*This group's complaint, prior to the adoptive lunacy of Trans sex activism language by the Respondents and the legally unnecessary amendments of the BC Human Rights code to include "Gender Identity" and "Gender Expression" would have simply read: Married and/or widowed Christian women, who are moms and/or grandmothers to both boys and girls, that belong to an organization called Culture Guard and attended a hearing at the BCHRT in Vancouver and were forced to share a "women's" bathroom with men due to the signage and policy of the Respondents that violate the rights of the group.
*Due to the attendance of the Complainant group at the Whatcott hearing it is obvious that certain members of the BCHRT struggle with comprehending concepts of male and female and the appropriate pronouns one is to use when addressing Biologically Opposed Presenting Individuals (BOPIs). As a result of the bizarre embracement of the newly undefined or seemingly redefined words like "men" and "women" the Complainant Group must use absurdly descriptive language to ensure the reader comprehends what kind of "women" is complaining.
"

The purpose of this is essentially trying to identify into as many protected categories as possible, in order to be eligible for a human rights complaint.

Hence it is a complaint on the grounds of:

  • gender identity or expression

Only biological females can identify for legal purposes and HRC protection as women. Transgendered males are male and should identify as a Trans Male. Gender "Expression" does not Details: overide another protected groups rights. "Expression" cannot require the forfeitur of rights of others

  • sexual orientation (heterosexual)

"Heterosexual females deserve protection too. The Respondents have no mandate to alter the reality of what it is to be male or female. The Respondents are playing a dangerous game of pretend Details: without legal authority to do so."

  • religion (Christian)

"Modesty, protection of women, privacy, public decency are matters of significance and integral to Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and the majority of those who adhere to their religious beliefs. The Details: Respondents failed to respect and protect our religious rights"

  • sex (female)

"Biological reality is what makes you male or female. Stupidity, ignorance and pretending the associated dangers of BOPIs, especially males, having unfettered access to female washrooms is Details: irresponsible. The Respondents are endangering women."

"The adverse impact [on the group or class you represent] reinforces the narrative that certain biological males/men, ones that wear wigs or lipstick, have an assumed privileged right to deny the protected rights of an entire class - women/females - and are aided in this by the very individuals who are statute bound to protect the rights of women/females. This has resulted in a troubling reality that demands redress.
"

"Humiliation, fear, invasion of privacy, the promotion of the harmful narrative that it is ok to demean women... The fact that this transpired at the BCHRT, the entity that is relied upon to protect the rights of people and groups, aggravates the harm and amplifies the hurt and humiliation.
This form of discrimination could have been completely avoided by simply creating the addition of a "Trans" bathroom if demand is at such a high level that it warrants tax-payer expenditure. Men and Women have a protected right not to be discriminated against. Those who identify contrary to their biological reality do not have the right to impose or thrust their protected right in front of the protected groups.
The conduct of the Respondents was intentional.
"

" the Respondents failed to provide the group with certain lawful accommodations that are well established legal precedents involving public decency, safety, and security as a female/woman. The Respondents are duty bound to protect the group’s rights, but instead deliberately infringed upon them."

"The Respondents knew, or ought to have known, that by including the words “Trans People Welcome” on the sign identifying the washroom as being for “Women”, that biological males who seek to appropriate a female identity would predictably abuse this “welcome” and deliberately violate on the rights of women/females.
And of course this did happen. The stalls in the “women’s” bathroom located on the 12th floor of the facility governed by the BC Human Rights Tribunal in Vancouver are not that private. The doors are not well-fitted, and the gaps allow for measurable invasions of privacy. The bathroom is also quite small and confining.
"

"On the first day of the Whatcott hearing, an assistant to a member of the Complainant group was occupying one of the stalls in the women’s washroom and noted the stall next to her being occupied. Shortly thereafter, she heard a loud male voice that began talking to other people attending the hearing who had piled into the women’s washroom.
She recognized the man’s voice to be Morgane Oger. This was disturbing and distressing to her. Her security of person was violated, she remained in the stall until she was certain that the biological man, Oger, had gone for fear of being bullied."

"Morgane Oger is well-known to the Complainant group members. Oger has harassed and threatened the organization to which the group members belongs. Oger has engaged in highly abusive conduct, and incited hateful attacks against the group member’s organization via social media, the legacy media, and at protests.
It is well-known that the factors associated with Biologically Opposed Presenting Individuals (BOPIs), in this case biological males dressing up as, impersonating, pretending to be or desiring to be women involve numerous root causes that vary from individual to individual. These root causes can include, but are not limited to: delusion and other mental health issues like gender dysphoria; an addiction to hyper-sexualized and/or sexually kinky experiences; a vulnerability to the social contagion affects.... and more.
Regardless of the inciting cause, these individuals remain biological males. The Respondents do not have the luxury of being ignorant in these matters. The Respondents have, by their actions, endangered women and children, and have reduced their value in society to a substandard level of being willfully disregarded, degraded and dismissed."

"On December 12, 2018 group member Kari Simpson sent an email to the BCHRT case manager in the Oger v Whatcott matter for forwarding to the presiding Tribunal members, a panel that included Respondent Juricevic. The correspondence asked for an immediate remedy to the bathroom situation. The Respondents failed to act. A copy of the email is attached.
Complainant group members encountered males accessing the women’s washroom repeatedly over the course of the hearing.
Morgane Oger, a biological male, has publicly stated that he has fathered two children, and has informed a member of the group that he is in a relationship with a woman.
The Respondents are well aware of the fact that Oger is a biological male, regardless of his many false assertions, his willingness to engage in make-believe, and/or his continuing attempts to bully/force people into complying with, and participating in, his delusion.
Mr. Oger has viciously harassed the group’s members and engaged in highly abusive conduct towards them and the organization that the group belongs to."

"By actively inviting males into the women’s washroom—especially having knowledge of males like Oger, who is a Complainant in other matters before the BCHRT, and another BCHRT Complainant Jonathon Yaniv who believes he has a right to force women to wax his genitals—the Respondents are fully aware of the danger they have placed women in.
The Respondents have abused their statutory power to facilitate a political agenda that purposely, not only discriminates against women, but endangers them.
The Respondents have demanded that the group members either embrace delusion or self-discriminate by being forced to participate with, witness and/or acquiesce to biological males in their private spaces.
The Respondents by inviting men into a women ’s washroom have deliberately abused their power, discriminated against and have endangered a protected group.
The BCHRT bathroom is not a safe place for the Complainant group members.
The Respondents have promoted a false belief that biological males are not only entitled to violate and trample on the rights of women, but have actually stated that they will be “welcome” to do so."

OP posts:
QuietContraryMary · 30/01/2019 22:07

This is the email sent complaining about disrepectful language in referring to Oger as a woman:

"Notice to Panel Members: Oger v Whatcott
Cease disrespectful and offensive language use in addressing Complainant Oger.
I will be attending the hearing again today and trust you will be respectful of those, like me and many others in the hearing room, who do not engage in a dissociative reality and refrain from trampling on the rights of women.
Please refer to the Complainant simply as "the complainant". The use of associative feminine related language to address a biological male is at best ludicrous from a position of logic and degrading, disrespectful and humiliating to those whose gender identity and reality is female - a Charter protected, provable state of being. I find it astonishing that special rights and privilege to the exclusion of others would be on such blatant and overtly biased display by the Tribunal members.
Please adjust your conduct to be respectful of all protected groups and people. I appreciate that Complainant Oger's legal counsel will continue to abuse the English language and reality, that is ok, we have free speech but as impartial jurists your responsibilities and obligations include impartiality.
I would also bring to your attention that my assistant was shocked to be using, what should be a safe place for a woman-the bathroom, only to find a biological man in the same facility. The BCHRT is there to protect the rights of woman and should be a safe place.
Please remedy this situation immediately. Provide use of an independent bathroom for individuals who identify contrary to their biology if need be but don't trample on my rights to accommodate another's.
"

OP posts:
ChewyLouie · 30/01/2019 22:08

I like her style 😀

QuietContraryMary · 30/01/2019 22:11

They have asked for

" Declaration ordering that all government and civic facilities, buildings and schools provide separate washrooms and change rooms (where needed) designated for biological females and biological males only. Biological sex neutral washrooms can only exist in addition to the washrooms/changerooms at a mutually approved ratio."

" All washroom/change room signage inviting use by "trans" people or other like wording or symbol with be removed immediately and replaced with Women Only or Men Only like wording or symbol."

". Amend, create and/or stipulate within all related statutes a clearly defined prohibition of males/men use of women's washroom/change room facilities or the use of a men's washroom/change room by a female/woman.
"

"Clearly define "sexual harassment" to include a male using a women's washroom and a female using a male’s washroom in all applicable provincial statutes and all forthcoming collective agreements.
"
" The AG is to better inform and educate British Columbians that "Gender Expression”, "Gender Identity" and/or "sexual orientation" does not alter biological reality, nor does it empower a male or female with the right to trample on another protected groups rights, including sex and religion.
"

" Amend the BC Human Rights Code to define "Gender Identity" and "Gender Expression" as cosmetic, costume or outward projection of a person.
"

"Amend the BC Human Rights code to protect children from the known harms (copycat/social contagion) associated with Gender Dysphoria, and/or other mental health issues related to a biologically opposed presenting individual (BOPI). For example, a school, library or daycare does not contravene the code if it fails to hire a gender dysphoric or other biologically opposed presenting individual (BOPI). The exemption would also accommodate a situation where a school fires a teacher who decides to transition (or present contrary to biological reality) after hiring. However, an adult primary workplace would not be able to rely on such an exemption."

" That the BC Human Rights Code be amended to define that “sex” is determined by biology. That the word “female” is defined by the biological chromosomal make-up of a
person, and that the words “woman” and “women” are defined meaning “female”.
"

" That all government identification will state the biological sex of the individual as being “male” or “female” and determined by biological chromosomal reality typically associated with physical markers so as to protect the privacy, public decency of all people when using bathrooms, change rooms or all other facilities that ought to be safe places for women including, but not limited to, prisons.
"

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 30/01/2019 22:27

She's wonderful and very brave

AncientLights · 30/01/2019 22:48

This so gladdens my heart. Canada waking up out of its reverie at last. Maybe it'll spread. I do think she's brave indeed.

RepealTheGRA · 30/01/2019 22:53

Adding Kari Simpson to my list of sheros.

HamiltonCork · 30/01/2019 23:16

Good on her.

welshgendercrit · 30/01/2019 23:21

This is where I miss a thumbs up smiley. Great stuff! Grin Grin

UnderHerEye · 30/01/2019 23:25

This is amazing !!

This has already been bolder and reposted but it’s so damn good I’m reposting it again-

Men suffering from delusion, gender dysphoria, fantasy, nefarious intention, or simply addicted to a hyper-sexualized kinky game of female dress-up, among other factors, do not get to trample on my rights… to security of the person, privacy, dignity, decency, and services directly affected by my protected rights as a female,” she added. “It’s time to end this dangerous game of lunacy

lisamuggeridge · 30/01/2019 23:30

He is really nasty. Properly nasty.

CallMeSirShotsFired · 30/01/2019 23:39

Clearly define "sexual harassment" to include a male using a women's washroom and a female using a male’s washroom in all applicable provincial statutes and all forthcoming collective agreements.

I like this element. We all know what it feels like - the 'look' that you can't easily describe even though you know it feels wrong. Call it out.

terryleather · 30/01/2019 23:58

Ogre is a hideous individual - inside, outside and all the ways in between.

QuietContraryMary · 31/01/2019 00:03

The full quote

"Men suffering from delusion, gender dysphoria, fantasy, nefarious intention, or simply addicted to a hyper-sexualized kinky game of female dress-up, among other factors, do not get to trample on my rights—nor those of my daughters, granddaughters and other women—to security of the person, privacy, dignity, decency, and services directly affected by my protected rights as a female. It’s time to end this dangerous game of lunacy.”"

OP posts:
WokerThanWoke · 31/01/2019 00:10

Wow she is brave. All the best to her. MO could not be more aptly named.

JaesseJexaMaipru · 31/01/2019 00:33

Careful with the applause though. Don't forget this Venn diagram. This case looks like it comes from the religious right rather than feminism. Feminists have no more in common with the religious right than we do with Transgender Ideologists. Laws made via the actions of the religious right could do huge harm -

For example, a school, library or daycare does not contravene the code if it fails to hire a gender dysphoric or other biologically opposed presenting individual (BOPI). The exemption would also accommodate a situation where a school fires a teacher who decides to transition (or present contrary to biological reality) after hiring - this kind of thing could be used to discriminate against butch-presenting lesbians and other gender-nonconformists who acknowledge biological reality but will not conform to the clothing styles of their biological sex. Trans individuals should have the right to wear and present as they like without discrimination so long as they don't expect others to agree with genderbollocks. I don't want it to be OK for a trans individual who is rational about biological reality and respects the rights of others to nevertheless be sacked from their job because of the religious right clutching their pearls about the horror of gender non-conformity.

Woman submits human rights complaint about encountering Oger in women's bathroom
QuietContraryMary · 31/01/2019 00:44

She's definitely of the Christian right, but that doesn't means she's wrong about Oger et al. Ideological purity/full agreement isn't really the point here.

OP posts:
QuietContraryMary · 31/01/2019 00:45

Also aside from her politics/religion, it's nice to see insane grievance legislation being used appropriately.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 31/01/2019 00:53

What a wonderful woman Wine

AngryAttackKittens · 31/01/2019 00:58

Did we not just have 3 entire threads about how we're not going to throw women who're not on the left under the bus for pushing back against the encroachment of men into their spaces in their own ways?

OtepotiLilliane42 · 31/01/2019 03:41

Apologies if this article from July 2018 has been posted before. It's quite long, and has twitter screenshots, and replies etc included in the text. One comment the author made about Oger sums Oger up perfectly I think, as see below.

As for Oger, I make no objection to his dressing as a woman. If he was decent, I would even call him "she" if he requested. So far, he has not requested this of me.

As my sister and i were discussing this morning it doesn't seem to have occurred to some transgender people that the reason others object to them is not because of their trans state of being, but because they are really not very nice people. Which their words and actions amply demonstrate.

www.newcenter.ca/news/oger-ndp

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