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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry the owl visited by police

999 replies

Imnobody4 · 23/01/2019 20:28

This whole hate speech/incident law is completely out of control. This is sinister.
Check out @HarryTheOwl’s Tweet: twitter.com/HarryTheOwl/status/1088144870991114241?s=09

OP posts:
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49
HazzaTheOwl · 29/01/2019 11:15

That is precisely what happened. At which point, the cops doxxed my workplace to get hold of me personally. And then yesterday, no less than the Assistant Chief Constable doxxed me again with a libellous public statement.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 11:18

Are you taking legal action?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 29/01/2019 11:19

I'm not sure you'll get anywhere as this stuff is coming from the top down, the public are behind you but their not the ones in control of this.

Procrastinator1 · 29/01/2019 11:35

Is the policy that Humberside police refer to the one, in effect, written by Stonewall? The organisation which campaigns to do anyway with single sex exemptions? If it is the press ought to cover the link.

TimeLady · 29/01/2019 11:42

Is the policy that Humberside police refer to the one, in effect, written by Stonewall? The organisation which campaigns to do anyway with single sex exemptions? If it is the press ought to cover the link.

That's a really important question. Specifically, was it written by Stonewall's trans-advisory group?

Bluestitch · 29/01/2019 11:48

Is Aimee Challenor still on that trans advisory group? It is possible that police forces are taking guidance from an individual who has been criticised for having no concept of basic safeguarding after an official investigation?

Procrastinator1 · 29/01/2019 11:57

This is thread on Jonny Best's article on the trans tool kit adopted by the police showing Stonewall's influence.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3424745-Believe-in-innate-gender-or-else-say-the-police-Jonny-Bests-latest-article

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/01/2019 11:59

@HazzaTheOwl when PC Gul rang your workplace, did he hint/tell the person he spoke to why he wanted to speak to you? ie that you were a hateful hatey person tweeting hateful hatey hatespeech?

R0wantrees · 29/01/2019 11:59

Is Aimee Challenor still on that trans advisory group? It is possible that police forces are taking guidance from an individual who has been criticised for having no concept of basic safeguarding after an official investigation?

Stonewall and Police, see CroneInAMillion twitter thread:
twitter.com/CroneInAMillion/status/1082770527310278656

(extract)
"Well there's a thing. Because I filed a FOI Request to see who was involved in writing the police's National Trans Tool Kit. I found out it actually wasn't written by the police at all!

It was supplied by lobbying group Stonewall, then released without proper checks.

For those who missed it, in Nov 2018, the police released a hugely biased document that incorrectly advised all police forces that misgendering is a hate crime. Scarily, it implied that rejecting gender ideology/wrong body theory is also considered a hate crime.

However, they have left in other points of clear bias. For example, rejecting gender ideology/wrong body theory would still fall under the definition of transphobia.

Freedom of Thought (and by extension disbelief) is protected under the Human Rights Act 1998, article 9. Trans people do have a right to believe they are literally the opposite sex but they have no right to compel this belief in other people.

Seeing the police take a surprisingly controversial stance made me keen to investigate who exactly this definition had come from. So I submitted a Freedom of Information request to Surrey Police to find out. I received the following answer:

"The information that we hold is that the trans toolkit came from* Stonewall. We do not hold any other information regarding this request other than it was ‘signed off’ by NPCC."

NPCC = National Police Chiefs' Council; a national co-ordinating body for law enforcement in the UK

We have to ask why lobbying groups are being allowed to write guidance and policy documents for the police and prison services. What is going on here? This can not be right."

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3488261-The-Financial-Juggernaut-that-is-Stonewall?pg=2

TimeLady · 29/01/2019 12:02

We have to ask why lobbying groups are being allowed to write guidance and policy documents for the police and prison services. What is going on here? This can not be right.

^^ This.

Bluestitch · 29/01/2019 12:02

Thank you for that information R0wan, I'll have a look at that thread now.

HazzaTheOwl · 29/01/2019 12:04

No, PC GUL did not give details. However, that he called gave my Directors concern and I then had to disclose to them what had gone on. So, it had the same result.

nauticant · 29/01/2019 12:06

Have you asked them to provide you with a list of the 30 tweets they have identified as "transphobic"?

Bluestitch · 29/01/2019 12:06

Did PC Gul mention other tweets? It seems like they are trying to smear you by mentioning 30 other tweets, but not saying what they are so people can make their own minds up. After all the definition of transphobia is anything other than TWAW apparently.

RiverTam · 29/01/2019 12:14

so the police's own guidance on hate crime is not in line with the Equality Act? How is that? WHY is that? I wonder...

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/01/2019 12:15

Yes, as you say, same result, which could have been very difficult or cost you your job, were you an employee rather than an employer.

I really hope you take this further Hazza

SmallHaddockAndChips · 29/01/2019 12:28

Definition of hate incident is even worse - it’s anything basically that the person believes to be so and has to be recorded as such.

This is cut and pasted from The Citizens Advice Bureau:

——————

What are hate incidents?

The police and Crown Prosecution Service have agreed a common definition of hate incidents.
They say something is a hate incident if the victim or anyone else think it was motivated by hostility or prejudice based on one of the following things:

  • disability
  • race
  • religion
  • transgender identity
  • sexual orientation.

This means that if you believe something is a hate incident it should be recorded as such by the person you are reporting it to. All police forces record hate incidents based on these five personal characteristics.

Anyone can be the victim of a hate incident. For example, you may have been targeted because someone thought you were gay even though you’re not, or because you have a disabled child.

What type of incidents can be a hate incident?

Hate incidents can take many forms. Here are examples of hate incidents:

  • verbal abuse like name-calling and offensive jokes
  • harassment
  • bullying or intimidation by children, adults, neighbours or strangers
  • physical attacks such as hitting, punching, pushing, spitting
  • threats of violence
  • hoax calls, abusive phone or text messages, hate mail
  • online abuse for example on Facebook or Twitter
  • displaying or circulating discriminatory literature or posters
  • harm or damage to things such as your home, pet, vehicle
  • graffiti
  • arson
  • throwing rubbish into a garden
  • malicious complaints for example over parking, smells or noise.

What can you do about a hate incident or crime?

If you’ve experienced a hate incident or crime you can report it to the police. You can also report a hate incident or crime even if it wasn’t directed at you. For example, you could be a friend, neighbour, family member, support worker or simply a passer-by.

When reporting the incident or crime you should say whether you think it was because of disability, race, religion, transgender identity, sexual orientation or a combination of these things. This is important because it makes sure the police record it as a hate incident or crime.

If you’re worried about the police not taking you seriously

You may be unsure whether the incident is a criminal offence, or you may think it’s not serious enough to be reported. However, if you are distressed and want something done about what happened, it’s always best to report it. Although, the police can only charge and prosecute someone when the law has been broken, there are other things the police can do to help you deal with the incident.

ProfessoressWoland · 29/01/2019 12:48

“Unfriendliness”??? Ridiculous. That could include so-called “cotton ceiling” rejection of a potential sexual partner.

It could. Lesbians who don't do penis are frequently accused of transphobia.

And as Jonny Best's article in the Medium shows, the police initially released a version of the Trans Toolkit which stated that transphobia, including not believing in gender identity, is a hate crime.

"The police definition of transphobia extends the Stonewall text, explicitly linking the Stonewall definition with transgender hate crime:

The fear or dislike of someone based on their being trans, including the denial/refusal of their gender identity. Any incident of transphobia, any form of prejudice or hatred towards a person because of their actual or perceived transgender, is considered a transgender hate crime.

There are two ways of interpreting this — and neither reflects well on the police: either the authors of the document don’t understand hate crime legislation, or they believe that the police now have the authority to change existing law by publishing a document."

Needmoresleep · 29/01/2019 12:56

The Home Secretary has been warned by senior police officers who would prefer to be apparently prefer to focus on burglary.

dailym.ai/2CUBVpE

Googling this I came across a report of a dog fouling the pavement outside someone's house being treated as a hate crime. Thinking of it I should have checked whether it was in Hull.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/01/2019 15:08

Harry's filed a complaint

twitter.com/HarryTheOwl/status/1090254265040351233

(sorry for talking about you in third person as if you weren't on this thread Harry but not sure about the etiquette)

RiverTam · 29/01/2019 15:13

good work, Harry.

ToeToToe · 29/01/2019 15:13

Good on you, Harry.

Bluestitch · 29/01/2019 15:13

Well done Harry. I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm trying to imagine it happening to someone like a low paid single mum who tweets GC stuff, it's really sinister to imagine them contacting workplaces and causing people such worry.

Popchyk · 29/01/2019 15:27

That complaint from Harry:

Suspect 1: Assistant Chief Constable Scott Young
Gender: Don't know

Grin
Bluestitch · 29/01/2019 16:12

Harrop and Hayden discussing this, making jokes about going up to Hull, golf clubs mentioned again.

Harry the owl visited by police