Radio 5 Live interview with Aimee Challenor

[Hornets]

Just listening to 5 Live Emma Barnett (just started at 10am) and in the next hour she will be interviewing Aimee Challenor.

I looked at iCov and its seemed to be part of media project providing opportunities for young people.
It may well be supported by grants etc to encourage participation & connected with colleges, youth projects etc

Read the kiwifarms thread on the family.

Then read the furry threads that are linked from it.

The consider how ‘fragile’ AC is.

That Coventry Telegraph article stars the police found the attic as the girl described it. That was in 2016, the abuse took place in 2010. He still had the attic set up the same way all those years a later. I find that really sinister.

I am a cynic.

I see the hand of an expert PR behind this.

Put it this way. If Stonewall want to protect their position, and after all they are an amazingly effective lobbying organisation, they cannot concede any doubts about the suitability of the Secretary of a key advisory committee. Instead a careful interview where AC admits to the need for more training, before resuming an active political career..

What I don’t really understand is the support and protection being given to a 21 year old from Coventry. Why are they so special. (I say this as a mum of a 20 and 22 year old.) Surely it has to be more than a willingness to wear a dress. Though the same question could be asked of LM or the NUS trans officer who was/is under investigation. I really don’t get it.

Wedges, levers, pawns. All some people have to do is be figureheads and fairly malleable for specific purposes.

AC and Lily Madigan are perfect examples of people with enough perceived vulnerabilities to make them extremely useful to certain powerful groups. They can be a figurehead to press for the weakening of safeguarding, or women's sex based rights because they are young and perceived as oppressed, and any critique is easily framed as bigotry yada yada yada.

It's precisely their lack of outstanding character or wisdom that makes them useful. If they were actual able and articulate individuals, they would not serve the purpose at all.

Floral, yes...

But who are promoting them and why?

NeedMoreSleep, if I knew that, I rather suspect I might be in significant danger of doxxing or worse, tbh. It's a good question -probably the key question.

This whole thing is a complete web of extremely dodgy characters - some with misguided but honest intentions, some foolishly gullible and a small number, I believe, who are in positions of significant back ground influence.

It's my belief, and I have stated this before, that this is not about 'transgender' at all. It's not for feminists, who's only specific concern for trans rights is when they intersect with women's rights.

But it's also not for the group of people who are orchestrating much of this. I think this is about control and it always has been. That's why the follow the money angle is important, and also r0wantree's careful linking of so many threads. We used to have a thread listing key players, and I understand and appreciate why MNHQ removed it, but the very fact that if you talk in detail about specific people, you become a target is evidence itself, really.

This is why I and others bang on about the manipulation of language and the use of religious style arguments. These are key elements of control. It's also one of the reasons I'm not too fussed about certain AWAs being pugnacious bullies, really - if I know your name and you post lots on Twitter, you're just a monkey. The organ grinders are the ones most people have never heard of, and tbh, they probably don't even believe in gender at all. But it's a very, very useful tool to see how much you can control a populace, and i think that is the bottom line.

Challoner, Madigan et al? Bit part players.

Floral, there have been a few odd things:

1. A teenage LM, from a dreary SE London suburb, gaining support from a London law firm over a uniform issue.

1. The City of London taking the lead on both gender neutral public toilets and self-ID access to the Ladies Pond in Hampstead - with the amateurish consultation publicised on Twitter,. as if they wanted to see how far they could push single-sex space boundaries. (And they never replied to my complaint.)

1. A posh set of barristers chambers initially being named in the private prosecution against Linda/Venice - though they then seem to drop out.

1. The leeway given to LM within Labour. How many more good women are they prepared to sacrifice.

And now what looks like a very polished PR campaign. Outside of MN, Amy's role in Stonewall has barely been mentioned, either by Veritas or by asociated press reporting. Yet this is by far the most influential of Amy's roles. Stonewall is in schools, in the Government, in charities, in major firms, advising/lobbying on trans issues. With policy written in part (there appears to be no transparency about Stonewall's decision making process - indeed some of their advisory committee remain anonymous) by someone who apparently, in part because of their autism, has little understanding of safeguarding.

Textbook PR? Keep quiet and do your best to ensure some links are not made. Then, after any noise around the Veritas report has died away, a polished, but I am also a victim, interview. Obviously it may all be co-incidence. The BBC may have been pushing to interview Amy for a whole. (Though god knows why - there are lots of 21 year olds aiming for political careers and I don't see them, say, lining up to interview the current president of the Oxford Union, or the heads of young Labour or Conservatives.)

But as I said before, I am a cynic.

I honestly don't know the answer, and by preference would avoid facile conspiracy theories. But my question remains:

But who are promoting them and why?

Oh god yes, I'm not gung ho about tin foil hat stuff. I'm more the kind of person who tends towards believing humans are just far too lazy and slapdash to maintain enormous conspiracies for too long.

But it very hard to escape the conclusion that something deliberate is going on wrt wider control, because otherwise your choices are between someone as yet unknown doing it specifically because they have the approach to life of a petulant vindictive teenager, or because they are really, really stupid.

Now, both of those are possible, I grant you. But you would still have an unspoken conspiracy element because surely someone, somewhere would have said "Hold on a minute..."

Thank you Floral and Needmore sleep and of course Rowan and others for continuing to point out the alarming links. Why? Is still the big question as well as Who?

I also believe it's ultimately about control.

If you can convince people to deny the reality of their own bodies, enough that they will surrender all their boundaries and deliver punishment to anyone who resists, what else can you convince them to do?

.... and so begins the rehabilitation of A Challoner. Presumably, there is a two year plan before returning to politics.

Something tells me that Challoner will have great difficulty staying out of the limelight.

I also believe it's ultimately about control.

YY power & abuse of power.

There's considerable arrogance in thinking that this interview would not be critiqued which is telling.

Both Aimee Challenor and those around her have controlled the narrative for a long time. They are using the tactics and strategies that have worked in the past.

Sunlight will always reveal more about how this is working/has worked.

More and more people are becoming aware, talking and asking questions.

Aimee's backstory is fully chronicled on Kiwi Farms.

Transcript part 1:

[11:08]

Emma Barnett: First this morning, Aimee Challenor is a trans activist who has had to come to terms with discovering her father was responsible for some horrific sexual crimes. David Challenor was jailed for 22 years last summer for charges including sexual assault, false imprisonment and the rape of a girl aged 10. He abused his young victim in something resembling a torture den in his attic. The details of the case are too extreme for us to discuss this morning on the programme.

As David Challenor waited to go on trial Aimee was trying to get her political career off the ground. You might remember this story. She tried to become an MP and a councillor for the Green Party and on both occasions, appointed her father as her election agent even though she knew he was facing sexual offence charges. This all came out into the open after his conviction. Now, an independent report has criticised both the Green Party and Aimee and David Challenor. Aimee spoke to me a little earlier. It's her first interview about the events of the last few years.

Aimee Challenor: At a young age I had a diagnosis of autism and oppositional defiance disorder which sort of framed my childhood in a very limited, narrow way. Special educational needs schools, that sort of thing, where there was a lot of focus on autism rather than necessarily academia. I was in and out of the care system, I've been in a number of care homes in my life ...

EB: Was that from a young age?

AC: Not from a young age but social workers have been involved from a young age. I entered care at age 15 but there's been involvement from the day I was born because of past family history, before my time. I grew up in care at 15 and decided I wanted to come out when I was 16 as trans. I've spoken quite openly about that in the past, the feeling of isolation because I had - I realised I was trans at 10 and ... sort of keeping that in the closet, a secret, because you don't really realise at such a young age that trans is a thing.

EB: But you didn't feel like you were a boy?

AC: I didn't from - I had the realisation at about 10 but there were signs beforehand.

EB: And why did you, from this sort of beginning that you've described, and I know you have spoken in detail in the past about coming out as trans, but we're not really here to actually talk about that today ...

AC: No, exactly.

EB: ... let's talk about why you decided to get into politics.

AC: I came out as trans and started realising more and more issues with the world, and obviously it was the time of the coalition government, mass cuts, obviously the debate over student fees, alternative vote ... and I was thinking, I want to make a difference to my community. I had an interest in law already so I got involved in politics, originally just community activism, and someone said, why don't you think about party politics? So I looked at the manifestos. Coalition government - didn't agree with the Conservatives or the Lib Dems because of what was going on in government, didn't agree with Labour locally, and someone sent me the Green Party manifesto and I found myself agreeing with what I was reading.

EB: You end up trying to run as a councillor and also as an MP and this brings us on to appointing your father ...

AC: Yeah.

EB: ... as your agent. Just to explain, what is an election agent?

AC: An election agent is someone who takes the legal responsibility, largely, for the campaign, making sure that the leaflets are in compliance with electoral law, making sure that expenses are filed correctly, that we don't go over the spending cap.

EB: So it's a position of significant responsibility in relation to what the person ...

AC: Especially when it comes to election law.

EB: So, just to go through this in terms of the sequence of events, your father was charged towards the end of 2016 and what we're talking about, when he becomes your election agent, is about six months later, is that correct?

AC: Yeah, correct.

EB: When he was charged, how did you find out? What did you know at that time?

AC: I wasn't told a lot, I got a - upset message from my mum who was like, your dad's been arrested, there's 22 offences and they're telling me that some of them are sexual. And that's all ...

EB: Because your parents were still together?

AC: Yeah, my parents were still together. That's all I was told at that time, I wasn't living at home because I was a care leaver, I'd been supported into independent living. That's all I knew at the time, and obviously I - there were mental health checks being performed and then I'd be - all I'm told is, your dad's been put out on bail, there are reporting restrictions on the case, if anyone tries to contact you from the press about it you can't talk to them.

EB: But what were you talking about with your father?

AC: Not a lot, it was obviously highly stressful and I wasn't living at home at the time and I didn't know any of the case details, so ...

EB: But most people listening to this will think, well I'd just ring my dad and I'd ask him what he'd done, or what he'd been charged with, certainly.

AC: So I - I - as I said, my mum told me that some of the offences were ... sexual and I was - I was leaving the care system at that time, quite a - a vulnerable point in any young person's life. And there was a lot of me, because of the past several years in the care system, that wanted me to go, I need to build ... this ... relationship with my family because I've came out, I've begun my transition, you know, I need to have their support and that requires me to, if you like, support them. There's a bit of ... you think that you've got to be loyal because it's your family. And so I - I didn't really ask. I knew that the police had put him on bail, I mistakenly believed that they only bail people if they didn't believe there was any risk to other people or society. So in my mind it was a case of, well, the police are now looking into it, there's not a lot I can do as a 18 year old young woman, trying to deal with her own politics, her own transition.

EB: So when you say - I understand what you're saying there about loyalty and trying to rebuild and that particular point in your life - but how would you describe your relationship with your father at that time?

AC: I think we drifted apart a bit because of the care case. Over the next few months, between that point and the general election, there was - building of a relationship, you know, going out, getting coffee with him etcetera, visiting London. We built up our relationship, got closer over those months, and then I was at home one day with my mum and dad and I get a message from a friend, the Prime Minister's about to make a statement on TV. So I flip over to the news channel and [inaudible] I'm going to parliament for a general election. Now, as a spokesperson and - someone who is - I was trying to build my profile and the Greens' profile. I was like, I want to stand in that election and my dad's like, can I be your agent? This was several months on after charging. I hadn't heard any updates on the case, no-one had spoken to me about it. So I was like OK, yeah, it - it's not like we're going to win Coventry South. It was, it is a strong Labour area, the entirety of Coventry. We're not going to be filing many expenses, we did one leaflet round of £110 or thereabouts. So in my mind, I weighed up - there's not that much to be done in this campaign. You know, we're standing so that people have the choice to vote Green, and to ...

EB: And you were how old at this point?

AC: I was 18.

EB: And when your father asked you if he could be your election agent, did you feel pressurised by him?

AC: I guess, to an extent because - you know, like, he - he's my father and I - I'm trying to build my relationship up with him. I think if he hadn't have asked I would have gone with the generic person the Green Party set up.

EB: I suppose what I'm trying to understand is, did you feel in any way - sort of - because he was your father you had to do it? Did you feel controlled in some way?

AC: In some ways, yeah. As you say, because he was my father it - it was like I had to do it, and I guess at the time it was framed in a way that it was the logical choice.

EB: Framed by him?

AC: Yeah, definitely, and the way it was presented to me, it was like - we're literally in the same - family, you know, it's easier enough for him to run my campaign than if I'm just meeting an agent once a week over coffee.

EB: Did he - did he say to you though Aimee, that remember, I have been charged?

AC: No ...

EB: He didn't bring that up as a potential problem?

AC: ... and obviously, at this time, I'd told the Green Party, which no doubt we'll come onto, but no-one around me in the party, when I was like, 'ooh my dad's my election agent,' was like, 'Aimee, hang on a second.'

EB: Didn't the charges against your father, even if you didn't at this point know all the detail, didn't that make you want to distance yourself from them?

AC: I wasn't - I wasn't told the full nature of the charges.

EB: But even if you were aware, just as you said, that some of them were sexual - your mother had told you at least that - you know, was there no alarm bells ringing from your perspective of, I'm trying to get into public life, I'll be at, if I may say, a very young age - but I recognise what you're saying about the realistic proposition of winning the seat - were there no alarm bells ringing?

AC: When I was first told, there would have been some alarm bells, yeah, but ... likewise, I was told that the police have released him on bail, and continued to release him on bail, which I think skewed my perception a bit. And obviously there's the familial skew of, it's my family, I have to stand by my family.

EB: Did it not maybe then, the other way of looking at this, at any point because your father had been charged, did it not make you think, I might want to put my political hopes on hold until this is over?

AC: No, that part comes down to - I'm - I'm not my father and it's not up to him to live my life, and it's not up to me to put my ambitions or my decisions on hold because of something that he's done.

EB: Of course, but by making him part of your political campaign you did link yourself to him, and very strongly.

AC: And that is a mistake which I regret and I've apologised for, because it was the wrong decision.

EB: So do - I mean - who do you blame for that decision, because it sounds like you were coming under quite a lot of pressure?

AC: I was coming under pressure but ultimately I appointed him. Some people have said that I've employed him or I've - and it's not an employed role. I wish that there had been more oversight from the Green Party. I wish that there'd been more, in terms of support and training ...

EB: I mean, other people ...

AC: ... as a candidate I had to reveal any disclosures I had to the party. We didn't require that of election agents. There was not - at this time the Green Party didn't have a formal, complete safeguarding policy or procedure.

Transcript part 2:

EB: Do you feel the Green Party failed you in a duty of care and safeguarding, to check whether it was right for you at the age of 18 to be running, and also who was around you, influencing you at that time, especially considering, as you've described, some of your background?

AC: To an extent. I think there definitely could have been a lot more support and training because even aside from being a political candidate in an election, I was a spokesperson, so dealing with external communications for the party. I think there definitely could have been a lot more training and support for all spokespeople, it was a common issue. Not, obviously, safeguarding necessarily but the lack of training and support, which for the Green Party was difficult because it's - they have a small staff team but it's something difficult that they should have tackled, rather than going, it's difficult, we can't do it at the moment.

EB: You don't win the seat, as we know, and then there's the trial of your father. How much later was that?

AC: That was over a year later, it was summer 2018.

EB: Is it right in saying that you appointed him twice as an election agent?

AC: Yeah, I appointed him in the 2017 general election ...

EB: And then ...

AC: ... and then the 2018 local council election.

EB: Which your mother also stood for ...

AC: Yes.

EB: With him as ...

AC: So both me and my mother were what's called paper candidates. So we're a name on the ballot but we do no campaigning. It's again to provide an option to vote Green.

EB: I think, just to break in at this point if I may, people may be surprised that - you know, you AND your mother are thinking of standing for office in the middle of what was going on with the trial approaching.

AC: My focus was improving the lives of people in Coventry, improving the city. Obviously, late 2017 we had the amazing news of City of Culture, so it was a great time to take a stand and represent people in Coventry.

EB: And your mother?

AC: I can't speak for my mother.

EB: It just seems a bit odd that there's this man in the middle of this who's both of your election agents and you're both running like this, and it sort of begs the question about his level of control at this time.

AC: I can't speak for my mother but we were both paper candidates, we did no campaigning in the area for example.

EB: But did he suggest that you should run for those seats as ...

AC: I wanted to stand for local election. Members of Coventry Green Party besides my father, but also my father, suggested that my mother would stand in as a paper candidate to get the full slate across the city. Obviously my father had some role in that, not all of the role but he did have some role in that. As I say, I can't speak on behalf of my mother, I can speak ...

EB: Can you see why it might seem a bit odd?

AC: To some people I could, yeah. My focus at the time was, you know, making a positive message in the city.

EB: When did the trial happen then? That was ...

AC: That was August.

EB: That was August, OK. And when that began, could you describe, as you started to, is that when you did start to learn the full nature ...?

AC: So I learnt a little bit of detail in July when I was asked to produce a statement for court and to prepare to be a witness. But then obviously at that point I'm a witness for court so they don't want to tell me too much because it might skew what evidence I give. And then I'm on the stand in the courtroom and the prosecution barrister for the CPS presents these details to me and I'm shocked ... heartbroken in a way because this is my father. And ... I - I give my statement for court and, sort of, the judge orders a recess and I sort of slump out of the court and I go off and I cry to ... my mum and I get - how can this ... be? I don't go back to court to watch the rest of the trial, I stay at home.

Then 22nd of August, mum's in court with my dad and ... I'm not hearing much because obviously, court room, you're not on your phone, and a message comes through from a family friend and it just goes, Aimee, I'm so sorry. And at that point obviously I know that he's - he's gone down. And then ... my mum calls me and tells me he's gone down for 22 years - 21 years. And ... I phone up the Green Party press office on - emergency on-call team and I'm like, right, this is what's happened, tell - tell them about, you know, he's been my election agent, the fact that I gave evidence to the court. And they go, all right, I'll call you back tomorrow, type thing.

I then - my priority is then my mother because my dad was my mother's main carer because she was - had a number of disabilities so I had to spend a couple of days trying to get care in place for her. I then go up to spend time with family [inaudible] in Aberdeen and ... that's when it hit the press. I had to turn my phone off because I was just getting hounded with calls from not just reporters but people I didn't know and I - I called the press team and you know, like, this is - this is getting bad, they've just tried to doorstep my mum.

And ... so we put out a - a statement. We had to put out a number of statements in that week because ... originally I was - there was an emergency statement of, we're aware of it, and, you know, Aimee's producing a statement and we've suspended David Challenor's membership. Obviously I didn't - I was standing for deputy leader of the Green Party at the time. I didn't want that ... election, that conversation of the future of the Green Party to be dominated by the atrocities that my father had committed. So I stepped aside from that election which ... upset some people around me because obviously, here's this man who's done atrocious things to a young - young ch- woman - a child. And ... then they sort of go, he's still, even though he's been sent to prison, then having an effect on the women around him because it's affecting, you know, my mother, his wife's care and whether - we weren't sure at that point whether she'd be able to stay at home. It's affecting obviously me and politics and has until last month.

EB: Because you're no longer a member of the Green Party ...

AC: yeah.

EB: ... we'll come onto where you're up to in just a moment, but how were you feeling at this point?

AC: I - I had to take a long time off from anything. I went up to Aberdeen and I sort of crashed because ... it was - it was heartbreaking you know, this ... individual, my father, had done such monstrosities and then obviously the sort of feeling of people left, right, centre, all going - all going, Aimee needs to say this, Aimee needs to say that, and I'm like, I just want to hide my head under a pillow and scream. It was an absolutely devastating time for me, and obviously then my family.

EB: And did you talk to him after the trial?

AC: I didn't, he was sent straight down then.

EB: But did he make a phone call to you?

AC: He couldn't that day.

EB: But since, have you ...

AC: I've spoken to him since.

EB: What was the first conversation like, because if as you say, you hadn't known the nature fully until everything came out in court, what was that first conversation like?

AC: Very ... hard. He was ... put on medi- quite strong medication when he was sent down so he - he wasn't, I don't think, quite with it during our first phone call. It was quite a short one because obviously they had to process us to go through to have longer phone calls with prisoners.

EB: Have you - have you shouted at him? Have you been annoyed with him?

AC: I've cried to him. I wouldn't really say I've shouted at him. I've told him that I'm angry.

EB: And what has he said to you?

AC: He's all - he's constantly saying sorry, sorry, but ... I - I'm still in a place where I'm battling my own internal conflict because there's part of me that's like, he's my dad, you know, I've got to allow him to say sorry, but he has destroyed ... this child's life, he's taken a sledgehammer to things that I've worked hard for and obviously it's deeply destroyed my mum.

EB: Do you have a relationship with him now?

AC: Not a close one, no. Last time I spoke to him, which was just after new year, it was to let me know that he'd been moved to a different prison and that he was calling me because he couldn't get through to my mum. I've not gone to visit him yet because I don't think that I could handle that emotionally and I'm not in a place to - where I could go in there and control my emotions, and not scream at him.

EB: Do you think you will visit him?

AC: I don't know. I just genuinely don't know.

EB: I suppose the other question at this point then is, you say it's like he took a sledgehammer to what you'd worked for, do you feel like you are able to come out yet of the shadows that he has cast over your life because of that connection with your political work?

AC: Slowly ...

EB: Because I know this is the first time ...

AC: ... yeah.

EB: ... that you've - you've spoken today.

AC: So it's the first time I've spoken on this but since then I have spoken on trans related issues.

EB: Yeah, sorry, I meant about what has happened.

AC: I - I have now joined the Liberal Democrats but ... I'll be continuing to speak out because it's the right thing to do, to continue to speak out when I see injustice and to campaign for what's right. I did a lot of amazing things as a Green spokesperson, I've experienced things that I'll never forget - debating at the Oxford Union or, you know, even simple things like changing TfL policy. So I don't think that ... his shadow will cast over me for a while. I've agreed with the Liberal Democrats that I'm not going to stand for councillor or MP for two years at least. That gives me time to ... heal after ... the pain that he's caused, it gives me time to have training, support, mentorship. That ... is desperately welcomed because it was missing in the Green Party.

EB: And perhaps get some other experiences ...

AC: Exactly, you know, it gives me ...

EB: ... as I say, I don't mean this in a patronising way but I'm remembering how I was when I was your age, I studied politics, I was very interested in politics, but I don't think I was at all ready to go through running for office or some of those things. That's not to say we're the same in any way but - and you've got a lot of issues that you feel very passionately about ...

AC: Yes.

EB: ... that you want to contribute on, but it probably would be a good thing, isn't it, to get that training that you're talking about.

AC: It's going to be really great to get that training and ...

EB: And I presume you're not going to work with your family again on politics?

AC: No, god no. God no.

EB: Well I think ...

AC: I think I'll be working with professional teams from the Liberal Democrats if I stand again, obviously if there's going to be a lot of training and support. I have a partner in Michigan in the United States and you know, we're now looking actually, now I'm not so engrossed by British politics, actually is this a time - is this a good time for us to consider our future and the fact that we're currently, you know, several thousand miles apart - is this the time to start looking at closing that distance?

EB: So maybe a bit more on your personal life as well. Aimee, I really do appreciate you taking the time ...

AC: Thank you.

EB: ... to talk to me and to all of us this morning. Thank you.

AC: I just want to finish quickly ...

EB: Please ...

AC: ... by highlighting the fact that I have learnt from my mistakes, from this report and from my experience. Ultimately there's been a lot of tit-for-tat in regards to party politics or trans equality by commenters on this. We shouldn't forget that at the bottom of this there is a little girl who was ... absolutely hurt and whose life will ... always be affected by this and my thoughts continue to be with her throughout what must have been a very traumatic past few months for her as this was splashed all over the press.

EB: Aimee, thank you.

AC: Thank you.

[40:39]

Excellent work Pencils

Thanks so much Pencils

had an interest in law already so I got involved in politics, originally just community activism, and someone said, why don't you think about party politics? So I looked at the manifestos.

Is this the politics of Anonymous and the 'community activism' which involved the threats made to the Bullring?

Off for a bath now.

Fantastic Pencils. You've done me a huge service because I couldn't listen to it.

There are things I want to say reading that but I can't.

And now what looks like a very polished PR campaign. Outside of MN, Amy's role in Stonewall has barely been mentioned, either by Veritas or by asociated press reporting. Yet this is by far the most influential of Amy's roles. Stonewall is in schools, in the Government, in charities, in major firms, advising/lobbying on trans issues

NeedMoreSleep
Aimee Challenor may be indicating where they have received guidance for this interview within the comments:

" I've agreed with the Liberal Democrats that I'm not going to stand for councillor or MP for two years at least. That gives me time to ... heal after ... the pain that he's caused, it gives me time to have training, support, mentorship. That ... is desperately welcomed because it was missing in the Green Party.

"It's going to be really great to get that training and ..."

" I think I'll be working with professional teams from the Liberal Democrats if I stand again, obviously if there's going to be a lot of training and support. "

Its worth remembering that within the Liberal Democrats LGBT+ group are also key members of Stonewall (Sarah Brown, Zoe O'Connell) as well as Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch) and other experienced TRAs.

Pencils thank you - with so much just on audio or YouTube its great to have text.

what a brat, really
it raises the question of how committed they are to any type of politics really, if they can so easily switch from greens to lib dems

There are many transpeople who have achieved influence in political parties who seem mostly concerned with trans rights activism rather than the wider issues which concern their party.