I've had a response

[GerryblewuptheER]

From girl guiding. Please help.me word a reply

Thank you for your email.

Our E&D policy is based on the expectations set out in the Equality Act 2010. The policy was reviewed and agreed by our board of trustees and our chief commissioner group in 2016 and the guidance updated in 2017.

We have worked on our new updated guidance with Gendered Intelligence and Stonewall, and have been in dialogue with the EHRC. We have also sought legal advice and responded to questions from members and parents to make sure the guidance helps them as much as possible

The guidance that supports our volunteers to follow our E&D policy was written based on good practice and knowledge from specialist organisations that support charities like ours to look after our young trans members.However we have an annual policy review process where we look at all of our policies to check they are still fit for purpose and to update them if necessary

I hope that this answers your question.

Best wishes

Well done for pursuing this and keeping up the pressure. You’ve had good advice here, especially about the insurance angle - I have some professional knowledge in this area and just don’t see how GG or their insurers will be able to defend a future claim when they knew there was a risk, harm was foreseeable and yet they chose to ignore it. And that’s before we get to issues around excluding girls who must have single sex spaces, or who just don’t believe in gender in gender identity. GG actually says on its website that no member shall be at a disadvantage due to their political or religious beliefs...

I’m not in GG anymore (appeal still ongoing) but happy to help however I can.

You could ask them if they have declared to their Public Liability insurer that they are now a mixed sex organisation, because it certainly constitutes a material change in the risk. If not, then they should do so, because under the Insurance Act 2015 they have a duty of fair presentation.

Good advice at the top of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397559-Liability-insurance

You could always write to the insurer separately but mention that you intend to do so in your letter to GG (using words from thread above).

Sorry if someone has already posted this but how about suggesting that they seek advice from other organisations such as www.transgendertrend.com/?

Well it's taken some time to word and attempt to not make it sound threatening merely factual but it's sent.

I do not hold out much hope for a response..how can you respond to this...

But I have a record at least. And i can say that I tried for my dds and of course eveeyone else's..

agnes I cannot thank you enough for the sacrifices you have made to stand up for girls at a time when no one else is. Sending an.email is the least i can do.

And thank you to everyone in this thread who posted with suggestions and comments!!

I will.of course up date of I get a response.

In the mean time...

Oh and I've asked us to remove the email now just to avoid any hassle. So don't panic if it disappears...

Here's a thread that actually is relevant to your concerns OP:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3484983-to-object-to-an-11yr-old-girl-sharing-a-bedroom-with-a-16yr-old-boy

Have a look at the responses. There was one that said it would be OK but that's if they were hiding from the Nazis.

I was on that thread

Amazing isn't it how a skirt changes everything

Why don't they hand them out in prisons then as they magically transform any potential risk into nom existence....would save a fortune...

The following is part of my email to them and follows on from a part where I discuss the impact of the implementation of some of their trans-inclusive policy, such as sharing tents or showers, on the mental health and wellbeing of abused girls and subsequently how they may be excluded from an organisation that could give them so much.

"You stated in your email to me that “The Equality Act 2010 makes it clear that organisations providing single-sex services – like Girlguiding – should treat trans people according to the gender they identify with, and our Equality and Diversity policy which we updated last year is in line with this.” I do not believe that this is the correct interpretation of the Equality Act. I understand that it is completely lawful to, for example, exclude a biologically male person with the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’ from sharing accommodation or changing rooms or from administering fairly intimate care to females with the protected characteristic of ‘sex’ as this could be stated as being a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Especially if the aim was to protect the very many vulnerable girls, that may benefit from a girls-only organisation, from distress and discomfort and to promote their inclusion in Girlguiding in order to enable them to develop their confidence and enhance their wellbeing. It would obviously therefore be legal to maintain your organisation as a single-sex, as opposed to a ‘mixed-sex for girls’ organisation, for the same reasons if you so chose to. Furthermore, I do not believe that the Equality Act was implemented with the idea that the needs of one protected group should be met to the detriment of the needs of another protected group nor that safeguarding the mental health and well being of an extremely vulnerable group of girls should be ignored in order for an organisation to act in accordance with the Equality Act."

Well having sent a lengthy response pointing out alot of what has been said on here i have just received a reply.

Basically just apologising for the time it's taking and that some questions still remain unanswered. And telling me that they want to ensure I get a fully considered response which is why it's taking so long.

So What does that mean?

Could it be that they didn't do an.impact assessment on other protected characteristics.

Or could it be that they cant answer the question i asked about if, a girl.was brave enough to speak.out would they try and tell her that what she sees isn't really what she sees.

Has anyone received anything further ?

I reckon it means that it's been escalated - hopefully to someone who is saying "shit, we hadn't thought of that, had we....?"

I have to say I'm very intrigued as to what the answers to my questions can be.

I asked if they told the insurers that they now shower and sleep in mixed sex groups.

I asked how they plan on preserving the dignity of girls ( I'm.hoping the answer won't cone with a suggestion they ask to change else where)

I of course asked about how they feel on the exclusion of girls frok religious back grounds who won't be able to attend now .

And I asked if they intend to gaslight girls further if an abuse victim cones forward.

There's no answer to those questions that won't show they haven't considered girls at all.

I still haven't received a reply. I have been waiting more than a month. I also asked about impact assessments. I also asked about what they are doing to safeguard the mental health and wellbeing of vulnerable girls who may be significantly affected by their policy. I do not understand how they can say that they are for all girls regardless of their background but then act in ways that may well be detrimental to or exclude girls with some of the most difficult backgrounds.
I will ring and chase them tomorrow.

Good luck!!

It is looking increasingly like they can't answer questions isn't it.

All that stuff should have been done. Surely its a yes or no question ?

I'm.wondering if they will release the Info like the Scottish consultation that shows " not been assessed for that" or " not designed for that" against everything.

Thank you Gerry. I will post their response on here. I was really quite upset and angry with their last response which ignored all of my concerns raised in my two emails. The emails had not been easy for me to write.

I have pointed out some of their own principles of good safeguarding behaviour to them in the latest email and I would really like to know who they are adhering to them in this situation.
"I have noted that you highlight the following as good safeguarding behaviours:

· Vigilance and understanding - Take time to understand situations and be alert so that you notice when something is wrong.
· Early help - Take action and provide support as soon as a problem emerges and before it gets any worse.
· Inclusion - Safeguard every individual because everyone is equally important and valuable. Everyone involved in Girlguiding has a right to equal protection from all types of harm and abuse."

I noticed too on the web site that they refer to it now as girls only or "our girls"

The single sex description has been removed ( unless I missed it)

Unless you really go digging and are on the know about trans and what it means you would have no idea.

This is the worst thing.

It's one thing to be mixed. Open and honest and clear. Thats not the objection really..It's the lying. Of they are doing nothing wrong why isn't it right there? Why not make a public announcement instead of firing the only person brave enough to tell the truth

People are joining under false pretences. They should be told

I have spoken to them today. They hope to get a reply out to me next week following a planned meeting.

How hard can it be ffs

They really cannot figure a way out if this can they. Expect there to be a crisis management team involved

All they have to do is say yes an impact assessment was performed surely? And reveal the findings.

Oooh did you forward on or print off that document linked to on the other thread ?

I see they've released their advert extolling the GG Winter Camping programme. No replies as yet to multiple tweets asking if they have risk assessed mixed sex camp or run it past the insurers...

Does the advert say anything about it being mixed-sex accommodation?

So still nothing....

Should I run a book on what the response will be.

Quoting usual dodgy stats and can't we all just be inclusive.....

Amazing isn't it how a skirt changes everything

Why don't they hand them out in prisons then as they magically transform any potential risk into nom existence....would save a fortune..

I would go a step further and say that if the Home Office handed out skirts to all would-be offenders and at risk groups, crime could be decimated

Hope you get a reply soon. Much impressed with your determination and intelligent assessment of the situation. Thank you for your work.

I would go a step further and say that if the Home Office handed out skirts to all would-be offenders and at risk groups, crime could be decimated

Of course worn by women skirts are responsible for everything that men do wrong. It's as if they know.... what a magical piece of clothing it is..

I will update if the response ever comes don't worry.

There will be a party if it answers the.questions without indicating that girls should change elsewhere, or the burden of keeping safe is placed on the girl to remove herself or speak up...

I'm.a bit skint right now so byo everything