Posie is being interviewed under caution

[Pandamodium]

At the request of Susie Green. A public order offence has been mentioned.

What the shite is the world coming to.

One of the justifications for austerity is the claim that public services waste a lot of money and cutting their budgets forces them to get efficient. It’s bollocks, in general, but the police seem to be keen to provide an example. Clearly Wiltshire police have surplus money and resource, anyway.

I've just realised how self important that sounds!

What I mean is - Posie has a way of getting through to people like me and motivating them to act. Not one person who I have spoken to about this has said they think it is fair and sensible to allow self ID and all that it brings.

To be honest I think a lot of people can't believe that what I tell them is actually happening. And then 6 months later it comes out in the press (NHS wards being the most recent which I was talking about months ago)

As a PP said, we should all move there, as clearly there is very little actual crime..

I'll happily donate to a fund for Posie's legal defence.

Another one who's surprised by how little most people know about this. I spent an evening last week peak transing an old (male) friend who had no idea about the sport, the chest feeding, the billboard...

He's a decent man, wouldn't go near the Mall, had been a trans ally despite discomfort about fairness because he didn't want to be 'the baddy'.

Posie is a massively important voice for getting the message out there. Count me in for the crowd funder.

When the police rang me for an update, the first question they asked was "have you been talking about transgender issues on your Twitter account"?!

Is this a criminal offence now?

I have just watched SG’s TED talk linked upthread.

Can any linguists comment on people who use verbal fry (As seen in Beatrice and Eugenie in The Windsors, SG and her daughter) and adopt faux accents, as seen in Jackie G who used a varying American accent?

I did one term of language analysis as part of my degree many years ago, memory not clear and theory may have changed, but I think there was material about absorbing, performing and who adopts and adapts to the accents of others rather than the other way around.

Live stream update on Posie's FB page. Green has complained about 2 sentences (!!) in 2 different videos - so 1 sentence in each video. Posie had a prepared statement so the matter was referred to CPS (as presumably, police don't want to make a decision).

Two sentences?

And they are home free for their actions? Ho hum. Friends in low places indeed. Hopefully they will be exposed but I’m not holding my breath.

it's absolutely terrifying if we can't discuss these issues without a knock on the door from the police. We don't have the resources to use the police to investigate the arch crime of 'having an opinion (never mind that it's mostly just stating clear and logical fact, in the case of Posie)

the thing is, if Susie Green is going to go after freedom of speech, she's going to find herself up against some properly obsessive people who make feminists look like pussycats

and also (sadly) coverage of the erosion of free speech will gain far more traction that coverage of the erosion of women's rights

I predict that in the long run this will be a massive own goal. however not without causing Posie anxiety, cost and inconvenience

If the CPS decide to go anywhere with this shit show I will cheerfully donate to t a crowdfunder

She did a live stream last night - she’s an honest person with a lot of integrity, I thought. Made a point about not being a ‘nice woman’ - which, I think, is why she keeps being banned from places - not for what she’s saying but for failing to couch it in sufficiently apologetic language.

She also pointed out that as a SAHM without employer to upset, etc, she is willing to say what other women can’t and be the voice of those of us who are gagged by having to keep our jobs. I think she’s both brave and stunning. I possibly have a little crush.

she's going to find herself up against some properly obsessive people who make feminists look like pussycats

Maybe why the press in general is starting to get it.

When the police rang me for an update, the first question they asked was "have you been talking about transgender issues on your Twitter account"?!

I interpret this as meaning discussing this subject will attract the attention of stalker types. Perhaps there are precedents for this? It's a toxic subject & will draw out behaviour from some activists who will stop at nothing, hence why most of us hide our identities. Asking the question seems to highlight that the fears we have are also understood by the police.

BBC article about Victoria Derbyshire Show's supportive program about Mermaids and prescription of 'puberty blocking medication last year:
'Transgender children: Buying time by delaying puberty'
By Jim Reed
Reporter, Victoria Derbyshire programme
2 July 2018

(extract)
"Both girls recently spent the weekend at a camp for trans children and their families, run by the Mermaids charity.

It was attended by around 30 children between the ages of six and 19, who spend time socialising or in workshops on bullying, self-esteem or how to report hate crimes.

The charity keeps the location secret - 17 times in the past six months its founder, Suzie Green, has reported abusive online messages to the police. Eight cases in the past year have been investigated as suspected hate crimes.

"We were being called paedophiles, we were being accused of being child abusers," she says. "In fact they even did a mock-up of a van with puppies and sweets on the side saying that Mermaids are trawling infant schools trying to pick up children to make them trans. It is ridiculous."

More than half young trans people say they have been the victim of hate crime in the last year, according to research from the Stonewall charity." (continues)
www.bbc.com/news/uk-44661079

thread about the episode:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294478-Victoria-Derbyshire-show-today-transgender-children-buying-time-by-delaying-puberty?pg=1

From her interview with Victoria Derbyshire between January-July 2018 Susie Green describes how she reported 17 instances that she believed and alleged were hate crimes to the Police.

7 were investigated further by the police as suspected hate crimes... most of these presumably also then dropped with the exception of the current allegations against Posie Parker?

9 were not investigated (so were dismissed)

So the majority of reports made by Susie Green CEO Mermaids Charity of what she alleges are hate crimes to the police have been dismissed?

Beliefs and allegations of 'hate crimes' are not proof that 'hate crimes' being committed.

What training is Mermaids providing to children and young people about how to report hate crimes? Is it providing accurate information?

see issues with Mermaids training for teachers:
(links to the transcripts thanks to a wonderful mumsnet collaboration)
docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing
docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training?pg=10

it's absolutely terrifying if we can't discuss these issues without a knock on the door from the police. We don't have the resources to use the police to investigate the arch crime of 'having an opinion (never mind that it's mostly just stating clear and logical fact, in the case of Posie)

Graham Linehan was describing his experiences of how a couple of other TRAs (Harrop & Hayden?) have endevoured to use police/law to leverage control against him and other people speaking out in a recent interview with Benjamin Boyce:

If the hate crime legislation is so easily abused, we need to consider if it’s fitnfor purpose.

We can’t have people’s perceptions of offence as justifications for criminal prosecution. Hate crime legislation was supposed to reflect the societal impact of stuff like racist crime - not to be used as a method of prosecuting anyone who disagrees with you, hurts your feelings or raises concerned about your behaviour.

The backlash to this is going to have consequences for legislation designed to protect the genuinely vulnerable.

I agree Bowl. I certainly don't think the training being given to police is fit for purpose. Which city was boasting about their increase in reported hate crimes from the trans community? However it turned out only one had gone to court. Clearly there is a problem there, either with prosecution of genuine hate crime by the CPS further along the line or with people making vexatious or trivial reports and wasting police time.

My understanding of the basis was that a prosecuted crime had been committed and then the motivations that aggravated that crime were identified and punishable.

All those reported hate crimes will push up the statistics and act as evidence that the Trans community are suffering from hatred and persecution. It will presumably then be used as justification for more funding and more training.

I wonder how much of the £94000 grant awarded by tudortrust.org.uk/ for 'a new legal advisor post' is being used to protect one person from criticism?

That’s my understanding too r0wan.

The ‘crime’ will be whatever loosely defined stuff they think will fit - it’s usually malicious comms but I think she said public order offences?

I wonder how much of the £94000 grant awarded by tudortrust.org.uk/ for 'a new legal advisor post' is being used to protect one person from criticism?

Is this for Mermaids Charity?

The ‘crime’ will be whatever loosely defined stuff they think will fit - it’s usually malicious comms but I think she said public order offences?

UK law works on precedent, so if the two sentences that are alleged to be the basis for a 'public order' offence are successfully prosecuted that would be an extraordinary precedent.

In the meantime, 54 crimes of domestic abuse and over 30 sexual offences in Wiltshire were not recorded:
www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/publications/wiltshire-police-crime-data-integrity-2017/

Looked for this after reading this thread and hearing on Woman’s Hour that West Midlands police failed to record over 16k violent and sexual crimes:
twitter.com/bbcwomanshour/status/1085553529299914752?s=21

Same point that so many other people have made on this thread and the one about the visit to Glinner but just wonder why some people seem to have no problems getting a response from the police

Is this for Mermaids Charity?

Yes, see pg 25
tudortrust.org.uk/assets/file/TTT_Grants_List_2017-2018.pdf