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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lee Lakeman Vancouver Jan. 2019 **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

10 replies

SignMeUp · 15/01/2019 02:50

tradfem.wordpress.com/2019/01/12/lee-lakeman-speaks-at-the-vancouver-public-library-january-10/

Listening to the live-stream I couldn't hear all her references. Here are her notes. I'm kinda genuflecting. Thank you Lee

I'd love to hear her thoughts on free speech and possibly a debate w/MM

OP posts:
SignMeUp · 15/01/2019 02:51

Lee Lakeman!

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 15/01/2019 09:22

Thx for this - I was really impressed by her - more so than Meghan if I had to choose - I hadn't heard her speak before. I do wish live streams would get the sound sorted out - so many are let down by it ...

R0wantrees · 15/01/2019 12:15

Thank you so much for sharing this.
I've been re-listening to her speech and think it made such inspiring important points:
(extract)
"But it is also important to put this achievement and discussion in its proper perspective:
the murder of women, that is mostly the murder of wives and prostitutes, by men continues even as we speak

the violence done to women and even more often to impoverished or racialized women continues to be without social consequences to those men

as continues the harassment by men up to and including murder of women especially Aboriginal women who are forced to live in the public realm by poverty and lack of social supports like public transit and local public schools

as does continue unabated men’s harassment of women who try to use their legal rights and privileges to take their position in public institutions and political life… what Hannah Arendt speaks of as the very nature of public life;
the recent campaigns led by women victims of male violence and their feminist advocates to hold men like Ghomeshi accountable are still at their very earliest stages and so far have been stunted rather than assisted by legal procedures, by the police and courts as well as by the commercial media and by the social media.

The fight for equal pay is not achieved much less the fight for equal distribution of wealth and resources.

The right to welfare and social services,health services and education services has been so undermined as to barely exist for the poor women, for the immigrant women and for the Aboriginal women. To be among such women is to be criminalized for trying to get by.

Women do not have proper access to legal aid much less to adequate protections of the law and to security of our persons.

Childcare, the care of the sick and the old are still loaded on women even if more and more it is the loading on to immigrant women at low rates of pay and with insecure citizenship.

Women’s sexuality is under constant assault so that young women have even less sense of the entitlement to autonomy to sexual pleasure and to body integrity than my generation had won. Instead, from childhood on they are fed a constant diet of pornography in every media form.

The international talk of women’s rights is just that: talk. Unless women measure, protest and demand, nothing happens to ensure women’s rights as written on paper.

No political party and no public institutions have distinguished themselves as fighters for the liberation of women. Nor have they defended those who do fight for that liberation. I am old enough to remember the Montreal Massacre and what the governments did at that point and in this year of Me Too and various campaigns they have done the same… nothing of pro-woman effect

International studies now confirm that it is only in the presence of an autonomous women’s movement that policies and practices of the state start to reform toward the advancement of women.

“Women only” is a key practice of the independent women’s movement. In the 60’s we had to admit that if men where present in our groups they could sabotage the conversations by their very presence. This has not changed

In fact, for me this discussion of “inclusion” is really the conduct of the backlash against feminism." (continues)

  1. Our purpose as a movement and as an organization within that movement is not to give every woman the choice of which sex she would like to be or to promote notions that each woman should challenge herself to find or create freedom for herself on her own.
  1. These silly ideas have come with neoliberalism;
  1. our primary work is to focus on and take down the structures that prevent women from escaping gendered roles and gendered poverty and gendered racism,

  2. those structures that enforce gender with laws, norms and institutions including with male violence against women.

  3. Meghan sometimes says she is fighting for free speech. I am not. I don’t plan to put up with the hate speech of pornography or hate speech of racism and I’m not to willing to tolerate the hate speech against the poor.

  4. I am fighting for freedom for women and most of all for that freedom that de Beauvoir describes as the freedom that enriches the freedom of others." (continues)

  5. Consciousness raising and why it is important What is it?

Truthful talk between those suffering the same conditions that allows for naming and strategizing against that oppression by identifying its structures and institutions

A vital tool of the women’s movement for women’s liberty How we use it?

  1. Why we cannot “include”those wo claim to be transitioning from male to females in this process

Based on the body

Female relationships

  1. (local) (feminist progressives) (second wave)

To those who imagine you can bully us into submission you are clearly unfamiliar with the Canadian and BC women who defined feminism in this last fifty years of action.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3470743-The-ReSisters-movement-is-growing

womanformallyknownaswoman · 15/01/2019 12:28

Hers is a powerful message RO

R0wantrees · 15/01/2019 12:38

woman absolutely, I need to re-watch the speech as Lee Lakeman makes a really powerful point about being a feminist is about action.
It is inspiring to hear and see female strength.
So too Fay Blaney and her Auntie:

Meghan Murphy, "In case you weren’t able to attend the sold out Gender Identity Ideology and Women’s Rights talk at the Vancouver Public Library, it was, in a word, beautiful. On Thursday, myself, Lee Lakeman, and surprise speaker Fay Blaney spoke truth to power, shutting down any possibility of discrediting the independent, grassroots women’s movement. Blaney challenged the myth of numerous “genders” in Indigenous cultures, wielded by trans activists in order to justify post-modern, academic theories about “gender identity,” and claim them as “non-Western” for identity politics points. Blaney said, “There are people who are talking about how Indigenous nations had five genders. That’s absolute B.S.” Lakeman reminded “those of you who can imagine bullying us into submission, you’re clearly unfamiliar with us.” I argued that it is unnecessary to trample on women’s rights in order to also argue that those who step out of traditional gender stereotypes should not be harassed or discriminated, and indeed, challenging gender stereotypes is always what feminists have encouraged. No one in attendance could argue, with any integrity, that any of the panelists were “hateful” or interested in harming others."

The few trans activists who did attend limited their “protests” to giggling at concerns about fascism and cheering when Blaney — a long time Indigenous feminist activist committed to fighting male violence against women — shared that she had been pushed out of the annual Women’s Memorial March, which honours the lives of missing and murdered women lost in the Downtown Eastside." (continues)

www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/11/vancouver-gender-identity-event-a-roaring-success-gidvpl/

GrinitchSpinach · 15/01/2019 13:31

Yes, Lakeman was powerful and uncompromising.

I hope that as Murphy gains more experience with public speaking she takes a page out of Lakeman's book and avoids the upspeak that is a hallmark of female socialization and makes her message a bit harder to hear. (I am about Murphy's age and have had to unlearn this, too). I loved the litany in Murphy's speech that began "It is not yet illegal in Canada to..." but it would have been even more powerful delivered more emphatically. Still, this is a small quibble in the scheme of things. Murphy has been braver and put more on the line than most of us.

Loved hearing from Fay Blaney and Auntie Florence as well. On the whole, the event was a tour de force.

Oger and pals disgraced themselves applauding Fay's exclusion from women's events organized by libfems, and insulting the hair of one of the activists. Fortunately they weren't able to disrupt or dominate the gathering of women.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 16/01/2019 00:38

That’s insightful feedback Grin and yes MM has certainly put herself on the line more than most of us and is to be commended for doing so - I must look at my unspeak potential work.

I was also riveted by Auntie Florence who was so “present” and again a tour de force. Her advice to be brave and never walk in fear again was well heeded by me - and I hope many other women.

Fay’s description of her treatment by TRAs and libfems was shocking and illuminating - good on her for sticking to her guns and boundaries

Mamaryllis · 16/01/2019 04:22

I’m really impressed by Lee Lakeman. Meghan is primarily a writer, and it takes some practise to work on translating your written word to a speaking gig - it’s anathema to writers who usually tend towards lonely garrets lol. These days you have to suck it up even if your writing isn’t linked to social activism. She’s doing a grand job.
I’m pleased that it signposted me towards other brave women active on the canadian scene. So many women are scared to speak out because of potential loss of employment and social ostracism (notwithstanding the risk of legal challenges from over-zealous Oger types).
I am heartened.

R0wantrees · 16/01/2019 11:27

current thread discussing some of the UK parallels with Lee Lakeman's points:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3479798-I-stand-with-Lisa-Muggeridge

SignMeUp · 19/01/2019 01:55

Lee Lakeman is on Facebook and she is fantastic!

I don't think she'd mind me sharing this comment:

" Thanks it was a great audience too three hundred in their seats and a thousand watching on line good questions and just not enough time and not enough opposition or tough questions Meghan was so articulate and well spoken with a great full rich argument Loved it! And lots of women telling each other of how and when they had been bullied and making plans to re-raise issues in labour gatherings and many job sites"

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