Karen White wants to force a return back to women's prison

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/transgender-rapist-begs-25000-surgery-13818119

Now the 52-year-old is pleading with pals to fund her reassignment surgery, saying: “I’m longing for the day the system sends me – more like forced to send me – to a female prison again.

“But the only way I will achieve this is if I become a woman. Then the system will have no option but to send me to a female estate.”

White wrote in her letters: “Being in this place doesn’t promote positivity.

“The only way I’m going to get out here is if I was to have the operation soon (private) then the system would have to move me to a female prison.”

Come on now guys remember: 'acceptance without exception'. Isn't that the mantra we are all supposed to be chanting?

My mantra is "fuck off you pushy bastards", personally.

NewYears, you are right. I was just so angry when I wrote that 😡

waterlego I didn’t mean to sound critical btw. Not at all. I completely share your anger.

No worries NewYear, I didn’t feel criticised! 💐

This same nonsense is going on in the USA too, only on a larger scale.

In the US, violent male criminals like the UK's Karen White, Paris Green & Ian Huntley are suing, usually successfully, for "sex change" treatment, surgeries & special accommodations in nearly every one of the 50 different state penal systems, as well as in the federal one. But because these cases occur state by state, & the US as a whole is so large, these stories rarely make the national news.

In a recent case from mid-December, a federal judge has determined that Mason Edmo, a violent male sex offender incarcerated in Idaho who claims to be a woman named Adree, must be given "gender confirmation surgery" within six months. Without the surgery, the judge ruled, Edmo is "at risk of irreparable harm" because Edmo is "troubled by thoughts of self-castration" & on two occasions in prison Edmo has cut at his genitals.

Funny thing, though, Edmo's longterm boyfriend prior to incarceration says Edmo's supposed gender dysphoria & female gender identity only emerged after Edmo was imprisoned for sexual abuse of a minor under 16 in 2012. The boyfriend, whom Edmo frequently assaulted & once beat with a frying pan badly enough for Edmo to be convicted & jailed, says Edmo "never once indicated anything of gender dysphoria...He was a predator."

Since Edmo first entered male prison & began claiming he was a woman & had always lived as a woman, Idaho has provided Edmo with female hormones & provided him with other special accommodations for his gender ID issues, though it denied him many requests & penalized him for breaking certain prison rules in order to appear female. As a result, the (female) judge in the case ruled that prison authorities "failed to respond to her pain and medical needs, causing her to suffer harm."

According to the judge, Edmo has "a serious medical condition" and "failure to treat her medical condition could result in significant further injury or the unnecessary and wanton infliction of pain". This, the judge ruled, "amounts to cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Eighth Amendment" of the US Constitution.

The judge in her ruling noted that there are currently 30 other (male) inmates with gender dysphoria in Idaho state custody. With 1.5 million residents, Idaho is one of the least populous states in the USA, ranking 40th in population. How many of these guys are in prisons in the US overall is anyone's guess, but lawsuits are underway in most every state.

Well now that's interesting.

No moderations about referring to "him" and "he"???

I got told off for not googling Travis Whatshisface to find out that their preferred pronouns of "they".

What's different about referring to Karen White as a he.

Travis Albanza is a he BTW.

If any of the people who we currently get told off or deleted for correctly sexing (which the people concerned would call "misgendering") were convicted of rape would we then be allowed to refer to their sex?

It's not a very logical policy.

Exactly - one could be forgiven for thinking that misogynists crafted the GRA whilst no one was looking

Harriet Harman was solicitor general in 2004.

I don't get it either. Are we allowed to refer to Karen as him/he because he is legally a man, or because he is not a nice person and doesn't deserve the courtesy, or because he cannot be a 'true transwoman' because of his crimes?

In another recent US case, Ohio transgender inmate Deon "Strawberry" Hampton, a male with fully intact genitals, was transferred in late December from male prison to a female one after successfully suing the state for not protecting hxx from "sexual assault, taunting and beatings" Hampton says Hampton experienced in male prisons.

Hampton, who is serving 10 years for burglary, has filed multiple lawsuits against the state, prison employees, & corrections officials. Hampton's legal representation is being provided for free by the MacArthur Justice Center, a well-funded civil rights advocacy organization with a long focus on prisoners' rights.

The judge in this particular case of Hampton's also ruled that Ohio corrections officials had two weeks to come up with a program to educate prison personnel about "transgender rights" & how to better care for men with gender dysphoria

While I believe no one in or out of prison should be subjected to physical, sexual or verbal assaults, I found it telling that in this lawsuit Hampton's lawyers emphasized the special cruelty of one particular type of violence Hampton "endured" in prison:

Hampton has alleged that IDOC staff have continually misgendered her by referring to her using incorrect pronouns. Clinical psychiatrist George Brown testified at a September hearing in the case that misgendering transgender people is "mentally devastating."

In court filings, the state cast doubt on Hampton's gender identity - alleging Hampton in initial sessions with prison health workers never claimed to be transgender and "was OK with being male."

Hampton's legal team hailed Hampton's transfer to a female prison, saying, “Strawberry’s transfer is a historic recognition that transwomen are women and that (Ohio's department of corrections) must take action to protect transwomen from sexual violence and discrimination."

Hampton, who has been treated with cross-sex hormones but has never had any genital surgery, is one of 24 "transgender women" currently incarcerated in Ohio, a state that ranks 7th of all 50 states in population.

I suspect it may be as simple as it being rather hard for White to hit the "report comment" button from prison.

The MN guidelines allow for 'flexibility and context' - with Huntley given as a specific example.

• What about, for example, Ian Huntley – is it ok to say he is a man and call him 'he'? We think we've allowed for flexibility and context here; we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned.*

In the case of White, although primarily known specifically for crimes committed after (supposedly) transitioning, the context is that he was a convicted rapist, who never should have been in a position to commit sexual abuse against women prisoners.

So, I don't think MNHQ will feel obliged to delete anyone for 'misgendering' White, or any other rapist.

But it is inconsistent. I'd be interested to know if the TRA 'monitors' are reporting 'misgendering' of White - or do they actually not believe in 'acceptance without exception'?

It may be that even the most ardent TRA recognizes that White is a hard sell (not that it will stop them from petitioning the prisons service on his behalf, they're just aware that the reaction of most women is likely to be "fuck off to the far end of hell and then fuck off some more".)

If I was HQ, I would be thinking about whether I could successfully justify my rules in a court of law.

And I would think I could absolutely justifiy calling Huntley and White he, with no problem whatsoever.

It's totally inconsistent and annoys me A LOT.

Either they're women or not. You can't have it both ways.

There's also the issue that a number of people who are transgender change their trans identity eg both Fox & Owl now identify as non-binary having been known previously as solely a trans man & trans woman. Some people's transition starts with identifying as non-binary (they/ them /their) and then goes onto trans man /woman (he/him/his & she/her/hers), whilst people detransitioning may go through the same process in reverse.

How much checking is required to determine the current preferred pronouns of any individual?

I recall on a thread discussing Edward Lord that a poster had looked at a good source of online information where it had not included the updated information that Lord now identified as non-binary and preferred to be referred to with the pronouns they/their/them. The poster had used he/him/his in good faith.

In the UK only a male can be tried for /convicted of the crime rape. It is specific to the male sex.

Are these pronouns 'preferred' or 'compelled' ?
#wordsmatter

Here we go. Let's see.

Munroe Bergdof has said some controversial things about the definition of a woman. He thinks that he is well placed to explain what being a woman is from his perspective.

'Are these pronouns 'preferred' or 'compelled' ?'

From the guidelines
it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

'Depends on the context', and my reading of that is that MNHQ is mostly concerned about deliberate use of a rejected pronoun/name being used in relation to people who are actually wanting to engage in a discussion here.

As such, it's not clear to me that reports of 'misgendering' by anyone other than the 'misgendered' person should necessarily result in deletion let alone a 'strike'.

In increasing numbers of situations using the pronoun relating to sex when different to that chosen by an individual could result in sanction/ punishment.
In such cases, I think the term 'preferred' becomes euphemistic.

I suspect it may be as simple as it being rather hard for White to hit the "report comment" button from prison.

And he's a billy no mates!

Reactive moderation, dontchaknow.

petition has 8,462 signatures. At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition

...yeah. That 'response' will be a few jumbled lines of word salad saying as little as possible.

Bercow blocked three MPs who attempted to raise a question in the house about a rapist, on bail for raping two women, one brutally while having self IDd into a locked women's psychiatric ward, being put in a women's prison and everyone going 'gosh, who'd have seen that one coming' when he promptly assaulted women.

After weeks and weeks (to let it all die down) a special meeting was set up for this to be 'discussed'. The discussion was David Davies alone, facing a little gang of well prepped handmaidens. The rest of the HoC went and hid under their desks. The handmaidens included the lovely Layla Moran, who came out with her memorable quote that she was delighted to get naked around strange men because she could see souls. The Hansard record really doesn't make it sound any saner. Moran didn't comment on what she feels less gifted women are supposed to do, nor what her seeing White's soul would have done to prevent her being raped if she was locked in with him with no escape.

The government have painted themselves into a corner. They can't get out of it, no one has the guts. It's being covered up by saying as little as they can manage and Miller saying things like 'single sex spaces will be protected' while meaning (but we'll let anyone be the 'sex' they want to). In a few years when the mess is so big no rug will fit over it, you'll be amazed at how many of them are lining up to say lessons learned/nothing to do with me/I knew this all along.

One thing we are doing here is documenting. In detail. They did know. They were told.

"White the rapist" works for me. no female name to be used here - it's too dangerous for the women in prison.

Even if this rapist had gender reassignment surgery and no longer had a penis, they are still going to be a danger to women. They will still be bigger, stronger and more importantly still be someone who thinks it's acceptable to rape a woman.

Even with no Penis they can still hold a woman down and force their fingers into the woman, force objects into her, etc.

No bloody way should this scum be locked up with women.