Maria Miller MP repositioning or U turn re Transgender Equality Report and GRA self-id reforms?

[R0wantrees]

Interesting articles and statements by Maria Miller MP (Chair of APPG Women & Equalities) today.

' Independent: 'Government 'mishandling' trans rights reform by failing to tackle health inequalities, former Tory minister says'
(extract)
"A former Conservative cabinet minister has accused the government of “mishandling” reforms needed to improve the health and quality of life of trans people.

Maria Miller, the chair of the commons women and equalities committee – and equalities minister under David Cameron, said basic healthcare “taken for granted” by the public is out of reach to trans people.

This is down to the government’s failure to act on recommendations made by her committee three years ago, the MP for Basingstoke said.

The committee is due to publish a new report on the care of LGBT+ people in the coming weeks but Ms Miller has already warned services are “going backwards quickly” – with trans people among the worst affected." (continues)

There also appears to have been little thought as to how the legal reforms of the Gender Recognition Act would be achieved, she added.

The reform pledge faced a backlash from some feminist groups, who have raised concerns that people who identify as a different gender could gain access to single-sex spaces, such as bathrooms, or services.

Ms Miller called on the government to make clear that no one’s rights would be eroded by making the legal system fairer to trans people.

“My advice to ministers is that they should be clear that there is no threat to single-sex services, they are clearly protected in law and they need to be clearer on that,” she said. (continues)

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/trans-rights-reform-lgbt-gender-recognition-conservatives-maria-miller-theresa-may-a8707691.html

HuffPost:
'Senior Tory Maria Miller Says Transgender Issues 'Mishandled' By Government
Ex-minister says self-ID reform "not as important" as basic healthcare.'
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-issues-mishandled-by-government_uk_5c2c9408e4b05c88b70433ca

Professor Kathleen Stock's analysis of the flaws of the inquiry led by Maria Miller: medium.com/@kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

Janice Turner Interview with Maria Miller 2017:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2993425-Maria-Miller-interviewed-by-Janice-Turner-full-text

My advice to ministers is that they should be clear that there is no threat to single-sex services, they are clearly protected in law and they need to be clearer on that,”

Sick of people parroting this without a single thought about it. If it becomes easy as ticking a box to 'become female', of course single sex spaces are under threat.

I do think Maria Miller doesn't actually understand basic concepts. Because she is mighty dim.

With self-ID, anyone of either sex will be able to identify into a single-sex space. That's the whole fecking point of it.

So for example, women's prisons are for women. And men who claim to be women. It is a single-sex space that admits both sexes. Therefore it is no longer a single-sex space.

The only way that the government can pretend that it actually is a single-sex space is by changing the definition of biological sex to mean gender identity.

We're not totally stupid you know.

I think this is MM’s ‘oh shit, I haven’t thought this through’ moment. Now she has to make the right noises so as not to encourage the wrath of the TRAs while subtly retreating from the nonsense she’s been pushing without proper consideration.

Good luck Maria, that’s a pretty thorny bed you’ve been making. That’s as sympathetic as my noises get.

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3467877--P-utting-LGBT-people-s-needs-at-the-heart-of-the-NHS-Government-spokesman

Tara Hewitt & Nic Williams on LBC today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3467959-LBC-this-morning

31/1/18 BBC report on provision of fertility treatment for people who are transgender:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3465629-the-bbc-have-just-peak-transed-the-nation

Helen Lewis has published a generally good response to this. But what I fail to understand is why Helen still claims TWAW. How on earth can you reconcile wanting to protect single sex spaces and believing TWAW unless you somehow think that prancing around in lippy and high heels for two years and sporting a piece of paper causes men to undergo some miraculous transfiguration which renders them the right sort of men to share women's spaces.

I think this is MM’s ‘oh shit, I haven’t thought this through’ moment. Now she has to make the right noises so as not to encourage the wrath of the TRAs while subtly retreating from the nonsense she’s been pushing without proper consideration.

I'm not so sure.
The focus onto healthcare seems to be being driven by prominant TRA groups and prominant individuals. This has been part of the trans equality agenda for some time.

It may be usefully distracting from the issues raised and responses to the Govt. consultation on self-id.

Just copyjngvthis over to avoid detailing the other thread.

basic healthcare “taken for granted” by the public is out of reach to trans people.

What healthcare? Because I read this as basic services - GP access, dental care access etc. If trans people are genuinely unable to obtain basic care (such as getting a GP appointment to discuss a regular issue) then that’s not ok.

But I can’t see that as happening. So what does ‘basic healthcare’ mean in this context.

I am continually frustrated at the toothlessness of the media here - when someone makes a statement like that, you clarify and query, Paxman style if needed.

“Basic healthcare? Can you say what you mean by that?”

You don’t let it go. Because that then feeds the rhetorical technique they use, which is to drop a statement like thatvin as if it is gospel truth then build the argument from there. Question the foundation of the argument - this is surely basic journalism/interviewer 101.

What basic healthcare are trans people unable to access?

If this is things like (as suggested by a poster on the other thread) breast screening for transwomen, then that can be addressed. Mental health support is woefully bad across the board - campaign for everyone to have better access to that too.

But if it’s saying that a mastectomy for transition takes precedence over a cancer patient then no, that’s not Ok.

But what I fail to understand is why Helen still claims TWAW.

To avoid the endless threats I assume. She will get shit anyway for her views, but this might ward off the most rabid replies.

I would love to ask Helen, who I normally admire, why she thinks TWAW. Just as a matter of logic, I mean. To me, it's akin to saying "I believe consecrated bread turns into the body of Christ". It's purely a matter of faith with no evidence or reasoning behind it. What is it about a TW that makes them a W?

But surely any commitments on health care Would need proper cost/benefit analysis, and with the NHS in the state its in, any extra spending would need to be justified? The Great British public are quite sensitive when it comes to the NHS.

Well, I say this, but possibly not. It just seems an interesting, no doubt strategic change of tack, and of course she does not allocate NHS funding, so it’s not her problem.

Reading the room when it’s an echo chamber is easy enough, but it isn’t any more. MM is a self interested politician after all, and mightily pissing off the voting public, who are already mightily pissed off, is a bad idea. She might be a bit slow on the uptake, but surely by now even she has noticed her pet project is unpopular. TRAs will not be the only knives at her back.

Of course this could all be wishful thinking on my part, and one can never underestimate MM’s cluelessness.

Above post was in response to R0wan btw. Sorry, xposted with a bunch of people.

Reading the room when it’s an echo chamber is easy enough, but it isn’t any more. MM is a self interested politician after all, and mightily pissing off the voting public, who are already mightily pissed off, is a bad idea. She might be a bit slow on the uptake, but surely by now even she has noticed her pet project is unpopular. TRAs will not be the only knives at her back.

Badstyley absolutely agree and given that Maria Miller remains chair of the APPG Women & Equalities I wonder how much of this also relates to positioning within the Conservatives / Brexit etc.
Is the challenge directed to Penny Mordant MP current Minister for Women & Equalities?

I see it as MM switching to "genuine trans" who in her opinion are those people who have (or will have) full medical and surgical intervention. She thinks that will be a safe space for her. Of course there is no definition of genuine trans.

She's turned her back on the cross-dressers. She won't advocate for them anymore as she will state that she is busy advocating for medical and surgical intervention. But there are sharks in that water. Mermaids will be quickly on to this and lobby MM to advocate for increased medical and surgical intervention for kids. Refuse and the trans lobby will be hounding her, bow down to them and every parent in the country will be up in arms.

Safer to stick with the cross-dressers, Maria.

But if it’s saying that a mastectomy for transition takes precedence over a cancer patient then no, that’s not Ok.

In September 2018 some TRAs protested that some elective mastectomies for females who are transgender were being delayed due the prioritisation of operations for women with breast cancer:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3368777-To-think-that-in-the-current-dire-state-of-the-NHS-finances-its-a-no-brainer-that-first-priority-for-mastectomies-goes-to-cancer-patients

Maybe Vixxxy but it is a flawed approach.

Helen Lewis has published a generally good response to this. But what I fail to understand is why Helen still claims TWAW. How on earth can you reconcile wanting to protect single sex spaces and believing TWAW unless you somehow think that prancing around in lippy and high heels for two years and sporting a piece of paper causes men to undergo some miraculous transfiguration which renders them the right sort of men to share women's spaces.

Helen Lewis on recent Woman's Hour in segment with Bex Stinson (Head of Stonewall's Trans Inclusion).
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3428918-Womans-Hour-Tues-20-11-18-Why-is-the-current-debate-about-sex-and-gender-so-often-called-toxic-we-hear-from-Bex-Stinson-and-helenlewis

October 2018 NewStatesman article: 'The problem that gender self-ID is designed to solve is real but the debate has failed
Any prospect of a serious discussion about balancing rights has been squashed by hair-trigger accusations of bigotry.'

(extract)
"For that reason, I wouldn’t trust the results of any survey on popular support for “trans rights”. Does that mean the right to live free from abuse and employment discrimination, or the right for biological males to compete in women’s sports or use single-sex spaces? Those two questions would give you very different answers.

Personally, I believe that it’s possible for someone born male to be a woman – a “real” woman, whatever that means – and vice versa. Male and female are biological categories, but “man” and “woman” are social ones. I see it like citizenship: you can be born in Dhaka or Dresden, and end up just as British as someone born in Doncaster.

I also believe that NHS gender clinics (and their associated mental health services) are woefully underfunded, causing painful delays. Updating the Gender Recognition Act might draw headlines – and boost the socially liberal credentials of women’s minister Penny Mordaunt, ahead of a Tory leadership race – but better NHS funding would probably do more good overall.

Despite these moderate views, I am hated by loud pockets of the internet. When I wrote about the risks of pure self-declaration as the mechanism for changing legal gender in July last year, Pink News ran my picture next to the headline “Left-wing magazine boss says gender reforms will lead to bearded men exposing their penises to women”. The implication was that I was a hysterical bigot." (continues)
www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/10/problem-gender-self-id-designed-solve-real-debate-has-failed

April 2018 article: 'The madness of our gender debate, where feminists defend slapping a 60-year-old woman
It seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones.'
(extract)
The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”) Luckily, sanity prevailed in some corners: immediately after the attack, the trans activist Shon Faye tweeted: “Whether this is true or not – physical violence against women (cis or trans) even by women (cis or trans) is unacceptable.” What’s astonishing is that anyone following the debate would know this was a brave thing for her to say." (continues)

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old

Thanks Rowantrees.

So she believes that male and female are biological categories and man and woman are social (gender?) categories.

That doesn't work too well with the definition of woman as adult human female, does it.

And as that definition is widespread and has stood the test of time I don't think we should be rushing to abandon it any time soon.

Furthermore, the vast, vast majority of the population will not make make the fine distinction between man and male or woman and female that Helen does. Equally, this distinction is apparent in law.

Helen is against self ID which is great but the idea that the current GRA process is fine and dandy is a nonsense. You cannot change sex. Not with a GRC. Not with stereotyped behaviour. Not with long hair, lipstick or wishful thinking. The sooner we revert to full reality the better.

Added to which TRAs are claiming female too

We cannot afford to give away ground.

We must not cede the word woman.

Janice Turner
twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1080808308360003584

Maria Miller statement just before Christmas:

Independent:
A senior Conservative MP has accused the Commons authorities of having “swept under the carpet” significant problems around bullying and harassment in Westminster.

Maria Miller, who chairs the Women and Equalities Committee, warned that the House of Commons could be brought into “disrepute” over the “disgraceful” way a damning report into the subject is being taken forward.

She called for “clarity” over when speaker John Bercow would stand down, and claimed it was “curious” that many women MPs had fallen out with him.

Watch more

Speaker Bercow accused of calling ex-commons staffer a ‘little girl’
Earlier in the year – amid the fallout that followed Dame Laura Cox’s inquiry into bullying and harassment allegations – it was reported that Mr Bercow would stand down in the summer.

In an interview with Press Association, Ms Miller said: “It’s absolutely disgraceful the way in which the Cox report is being taken forward, and that significant issues that she raised appear to be being swept under the carpet.

“I will continue to do everything that I can to make sure that there is an acknowledgement of the need to change the culture here.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-bercow-maria-miller-westminster-bullying-harassment-swept-under-carpet-a8705436.html

perhaps if the Women's & Equalities department hadn't been so tied up in supporting TRAs and able to listen better to women's groups?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3365319-new-kirkup-article-about-bercow-s-refusal-to-let-mps-discuss-karen-white

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396169-John-Bercow-sex-pest-ridicules-GC-Women-friend-of-Pink-News-Edward-Lord-who-refused-UQ-about-prison-policy-following-Karen-White-Case-Unconnected

I wrote a long post with several links but lost it.

I don't think she's changed her opinion on self-ID. When she says women don't need to worry, that same sex spaces will be protected - no they wont. They already aren't. That's why they keep saying nothing will change. Because self-ID is already in operation. Without any change of birth certificate, or indeed any change of anything at all. E.g. manfridayuk.org/2018/06/15/a-scottish-hostelling-experience/

All this self-ID, no need for gender dysphoria is coming from the Council of Europe, being pushed on member states, which we still will be even when/if we Brexit.

This is not even about trans people any more, this is changing society as we know it, to disregard sex and make it about what we choose to identify with, based on our likes and dislikes and if society says those things are masculine or feminine, for males or females. If we like the wrong thing for our sex we have to convert to the opposite of what we are. Sexist. Regressive. Oh and those special ones who identify with both or non in particular, like both masculine and feminine things, are now not male or female, but non-binary "they".

Not forgetting having to change all our language about our own bodies and how we refer to ourselves , to erase sex and make it about the body parts only, "cervix havers", or biological actions "bleeders", "menstruators".

And teaching that women have penis, and men menstruate.

I don't think this is quite the U-turn we might hope it actually. A shifting of gears and a subtle redirect, maybe, but to me this reads as tactics, not slow burning epiphany.

Remember all that stuff about how to make progress from that trans conference? All the 'make noises about period poverty so they think you're friendly' stuff? It's a tactic designed to distract and disarm.

This reads the same to me. The self ID stuff has perhaps been judged, at the stage, to be too 'direct assault', particularly with GC voices getting a little braver around sport and child welfare, like Martina etc.

So it seems prudent to shift the focus back on to the rhetorical tricks Bowl mentioned, based on pushing the perception of transgender as the most oppressed of all oppressed, using various internationally recognized dog whistles like 'access to health care'.

Notice how often the language AWAs use is US in origin- 'bathrooms' etc. Phrases like 'access to healthcare' play very differently across the pond, for what should be obvious reasons.

Don't see how the sex-based exemptions in the Equality Act protect women in any way. Having a GRA allows the holder to have a new birth certificate issued in their preferred sex. So if the gym receptionist challenges anyone on the grounds of a sex-based exemption they can be shown the birth certificate attesting to sex, not gender. So it's toothless.

The damage has already been done and there is no sign that the damage will be undone. As a result of the Maria Miller recommendations ...

1. Male prisoners were moved to the female estate "to save their lives"
2. The government funded training for public sector workers on affirming and validating gender identities without impact assessments on the 'sex' protected characterisitic
3. The NHS and local authorities replaced the word 'sex' with 'gender' in their policies
4. The government funded Mermaids and Stonewall training
5. The EHRC misrepresented the Equality Act law - with consequences for organisations like Girl Guides
6. The government funded Gendered Intelligence to write guidelines for businesses and employers about the need to support self i/d
7. The police were asked to crack down on so-called 'transphobia'
8. TRAs were emboldened, and felt justified in using any tactic, violent or otherwise, to silence, hurt and damage the reputations of dissenters.
9. Trans lobby groups were made rich at tax payers' expense.

There have been casualties.

Sometimes it feels like we women and our allies are plugging the dam with one finger and another series of leaks are threatening to engulf and drown us.

I blame you, Maria Miller, and your inept colleagues on the W&E Committee.