The 'c' word

[Terfing]

As in, the 4-letter word that refers to female genitalia.

I have started a thread in 'Site Stuff' asking them to ban the use of this word on Mumsnet. Personally, i find the word hugely offensive. It is shocking that one of the worst insults in the English language involves comparing someone to female genitalia. Even worse, I've seen it many times on the feminism boards.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

Presumably there it is used to describe men and as an insult? Not the super- duper most empowering word ever for a vagina? Does that contradiction never give pause for thought for its fans?

Yes, presumably it is, which is why I suggested that would-be banners made their objections known to precisely those people using it in a way they disapproved of. I doubt that the objection would be well received.

Personally I think "pearl- clutching" is as much a "shut up woman" phrase as "terf"

I'd never heard the expression before joining MN, but I don't mind it. It brings to mind women who police other women's behaviour.

That doesn't consider the contradiction. Is it a really strong word to condemn a man or a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina?

How do its supporters reconcile a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina being used as one of the worst things one can call a man?

Oh and like Bertrand I said nothing about banning it.

I'd never heard the expression before joining MN, but I don't mind it. It brings to mind women who police other women's behaviour

I'd never heard it before. It brings to mind women who police other women's thoughts and opinions.

That doesn't consider the contradiction. Is it a really strong word to condemn a man or a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina?

It clearly is a contradiction, but one that appears to happen, nonetheless. I don't personally use it in the anatomical sense. So maybe individuals come down on one side or the other.

But in the same way, if I do happen to call someone a dick, I'm absolutely not thinking of a penis. I know exactly what I mean, and it's not that.

The same with the occasional dickhead. I'm absolutely not imagining a penis and a head.

Likewise with bitch. It wouldn't occur to me, upon hearing that word, to think of a female dog. And I hate the word. Because it is used in a sexist way. It's largely directed at women, and often describes strong or aggressive behaviour, which would often be admired in a man. Similar to ball breaker.

When people are offended by the word cunt (and don't get me wrong, it's meant to be offensive), is it because they think the person using it is being sexist, based on its anatomical definition?

What happens if they know full well the person isn't sexist? Do they think they're just being ignorant?

In my experience “pearl clutching” is one of those expressions people use when you ask them to think about the language they use and it’s impact on other people. Like “it’s political correctness gone mad” and “well if that’s all you’ve got to worry about......”

I'd never heard 'pearl clutching' on MN before, either - not that I frequent many boards here - but am familiar with it from political discussion sites, where men accuse others (who are usually men and usually in a position of greater privilege) of making an inordinate fuss about something they consider trivial, eg, legalising pot or extending Sunday opening hours.

But it seems I've only encountered a tiny part of it. This is an interesting article on its usage.
slate.com/human-interest/2012/01/pearl-clutching-how-the-phrase-became-a-feminist-blog-cliche.html

That's an interesting article. Thank you.

One of the examples given is in relation to a hysterical storm raised by parents querying why a porn actress is involved in a school reading programme.

jezebel.com/5858594/former-porn-star-sasha-grey-reads-to-kids-pearl-clutchers-require-smelling-salts

Likewise with bitch. It wouldn't occur to me, upon hearing that word, to think of a female dog.

I do :( Likewise 'mare' and 'cow'. Considering that the males of each species are much more aggressive, but for a man being called a stallion or a bull is a badge of honour, all about virility.

Of all the genitalia-connected insults, the one that I find most amusing (also learned on MN) is cock-lodger.

But if you actually think of the animals when someone is calling you those names, you wouldn't be insulted, presumably. Unless you think cows, horses and dogs are inherently offensive?

Unless you think cows, horses and dogs are inherently offensive?

No, I'm offended on behalf of the animals 😅 Inoffensive female animals who are protecting their young being held up as an example of nasty behaviour.

I'm an inclusive feminist!

Inoffensive female animals who are protecting their young

Is that what it is? I never realised. It's maternal behaviour?

Generally to insult a man you compare him to a woman /disrespect 'his' women / call his hetero-virility into question.

For women, an insult tends to compare her to an animal.

And there is the hierarchy plain to see.

Of course there is loads of feminist discussion to be had around swear words.

Banning words is not the answer.

And the phrase cunty type of woman seems to make a lot of posters happy. That does feel powerful. I'm an original type of woman, one with a cunt. Deal with it.

Men are rather uncomfortable with the realities of women's bodies, a lot of them, always have been, hence 'cunt' is the worst of the worst... Agreeing with them helps no-one.

I'm not sure 'bitchy' is about dams protecting their pups - more often observed, especially if you have a male dog is bitches telling dogs 'No!' - and the dog fully understanding 'no means no'.

Yes, it's never occurred to me that it's about maternal behaviour being subverted into an insult, to be honest.

Also, if cunt and pussy refer to exactly the same female genitalia, why do they have opposite meanings as an insult?

And, we still use male genitalia as an insult to men. Dick, prick, bellend, knob. People who talk balls and bollocks. All male bits.

I don't use any of those words as insults. Cow, mare, sow and bitch are female animals and I would never use them to mean anything else and I do use them for that.

I don't use the male insults , dick etc as insults either. If I want to use insulting language about a person I will use something specific to that person - not a meaningless generic word.

I mentioned "boor" for example. I have described some one as an "ignorant, loud- mouthed boor". I also described someone as "slimy and oleaginous and a living Reverend Collins ".

I'm also fond of "conceited gowk! puff'd up wi' windy pride" (Burns). It covers a fair number of people.

"Bully" pre- fixed with a suitable adjective (spiteful, cowardly,vicious) tells me far more about a person than "dick" etc.

I would also say someone is talking codswallop, not bollocks.

I'm not convinced by the "taking cunt back " argument- far too many people, men and women use it only as an insult.

Of all the genitalia-connected insults, the one that I find most amusing (also learned on MN) is cock-lodger

I would make an exception for that one because unlike the generic ones it has a very specific meaning.

Margarita- ds got this for Christmas. You’d love it!

Yes I would- thank you. !

Opened this thread thinking the c word was 'cis'

Now that's far more offensive!

I’m very sorry if I offended anyone but I stand by my statement that, in many areas (I’m from nowhere near the area in my name, so can’t speak to there) it is used in the manner that I mentioned. It was not one of my party who said it on the train so I’m afraid I can’t be held repsonsible for their using it but mentioned it merely to highlight that it does, in fact, get bandied about...however I see we’re now getting offended by the appropriation of animals so I don’t think this conversation is something I will be of any use to. Won’t somebody think of the badgers

Having lived in both north east Scotland and Ayrshire I am aware of huge differences in dialect in particular the word in question which is used freely in Ayrshire but rarely heard further north. When lots of us have lived in places where it’s widely used I’m a bit about other posters saying this isn’t the case.
I don’t tend to use it but wouldn’t want to see it banned. I do swear a bit but try to limit this and have turned the the festive Home Alone favourite of ‘you big horse’s ass’ at the moment. Though it’s very difficult to not pronounce it arse!
Banning definitely a bad idea imo

Having lived in both north east Scotland and Ayrshire I am aware of huge differences in dialect in particular the word in question which is used freely in Ayrshire but rarely heard further north. When lots of us have lived in places where it’s widely used I’m a bit about other posters saying this isn’t the case

No one was saying it isn't the case if that is the poster's experience. Several posters have said it was not their experience that the blanket statements (which always appear on this type of thread) that the word is commonplace and no big deal in Scotland are not their experience.

You say yourself it is rarely heard further north. I'm a bit by the determination some posters seem to have that if it was their experience it must be a universal Scottish experience.