The 'c' word

[Terfing]

As in, the 4-letter word that refers to female genitalia.

I have started a thread in 'Site Stuff' asking them to ban the use of this word on Mumsnet. Personally, i find the word hugely offensive. It is shocking that one of the worst insults in the English language involves comparing someone to female genitalia. Even worse, I've seen it many times on the feminism boards.

What are other people's thoughts on this?

Not a word I use generally but I cannot agree with banning a single swear word - that would be weird and it would give it far more power and meaning than it just being another swear word among many.

I'd rather take the power out of the word by it becoming a "normal" swear word, than have it banned as a taboo.

We are not on a train with people who seem insensitive to how women (especially older women or young girls) may be offended by what they are saying.
We are in "Feminist Chat" on Mumsnet so this is a relevant post by Terfing.

Well, quite. We are among grown-ups and we can call out anyone who uses it inappropriately. But hasn't it already been demonstrated that there are times when it is appropriate, so the word itself doesn't need a ban? Banning it turns it into the swearword so bad it's banned on Mumsnet. You know, that place where people cheerfully refer to others as CFs or GFs. (Digression: not sure I've ever seen MF on here, but that's one I really dislike, though I guess US people find it less offensive.)

Dockray agree

Banning it means we can no longer refer to ourselves as women of the cunty variety

And also supports the idea that a vagina is the worst possible thing to call someone.

Using it reduces the impact. It becomes a milder swear.
Banning it does the opposite.

Of course the fact that the 'worst' swear word is to do with womens sex organs is a feminist issue but banning it doesn't help with anything.

Yy MF is utterly gross.

A cunt otoh is just a cunt.

Well not 'just', really, with all the amazing things it can do!

Plus it would mean we can no longer us the brilliant approach of saying "I'd call them a cunt but they lack the depth and warmth".

And yy to being a woman of the cunty variety.

Its just a word like any other.

Why is it one of the worst words? What makes it worse than calling someone a cock or a dick or a knob end? If anything I'd say it's peoples attitudes about it that needs banning.

Plus it would mean we can no longer us the brilliant approach of saying "I'd call them a cunt but they lack the depth and warmth"

This gets said a lot and doesn't make sense. The first part relies on the word being an aggressive insult and the second on the word being this super- duper empowering word.

So far as using it, reclaiming it or whatever I doubt the average aggressive man calling someone else (man or woman) a "stupid cunt" will get the message.

As for the love which people in Scotland are supposed to have for it, my husband is from a Glaswegian working class background. I've never heard him say it, even in anger. Nor have I heard any of his family use it. The idea my mother-in-law, brother-in-law or late father-in-law would have gone around/ go around talking about "guid cunts" or have allowed it in their houses is laughable.

Crack on with if it if you want but for the moment I haven't seen any replies which address the points BertrandRussell raised at the beginning

Personally I think that phrase undermines the power of cunt as a taboo word which is why I like it. It isn't intended as a serious insult.

Anyone who really pisses me off is wankbadger or a cockwomble so they are my worst possible insult as my work colleagues will attest

Why should a badger be associated with wanking? What have badgers done to deserve that?

I really dislike this word - it's on a par with the appropriation of female animals as insults/ swear words.

I don’t associate cunt with female genitalia, worse than bastard, less that dick. don’t find it any more offensive than other swear words tbh. Banning it would be ridiculous. I actually hate the words fanny and pussy when referring to female genitalia 🤢

I don’t associate cunt with female genitalia

Clearly many posters do make that association. What does it mean to you then? Just a swear word with, literally, no meaning beyond being a swear word?

They don't have to be associated with it to be a good sounding insult and something you can spit out when riled up. Badgers (or wombles) also aren't likely to object. Plus if that is my worst possible insult then it dilutes other people's attempts to use cunt as the worst possible word.

I'm from an Irish family. Swearing and and insults were just as likely to be a sign of affection as vehement hatred. I really don't see them as invested in the power of hatred in the same way you clearly do. Doesn't mean I am right or you are wrong- just shows that the word itself doesn't have a universal meaning which should be considered if it is up for being banned.

Badgers (or wombles) also aren't likely to object

Not really my point. I don't see why an animal should be appropriated as a swear word. Aside from the word not making any sense I don't see why a rather magnificent and potentially endangered species should be used as an insult for vile behaviour by a human.

Ye just a swear word, A strong 1. If I called some1 a fucking cunt they’d assume I was more pissed off with them than if I called them a fucking bastard

How many of you here call people faggots, kikes, sluts, niggers, dykes, TERFs, etc? Is there a line between obscenities which are separate from their origins and those which are inextricably linked? What line do you draw between things which are fine to be used as insults and things which are not?

I recognize that these can sound like goady questions, but I am genuinely curious. I do not support banning words, but I certainly cannot agree that cunt is an empowering and feminist word.

I agree, Lydia. It seems to me that “it’s just a word” is only ever used about cunt. Nobody denies the weight of history behind nigger.
I don’t want cunt banned, by the way. I just want the misogyny behind it recognised.

How many of you here call people faggots, kikes, sluts, niggers, dykes, TERFs, etc

Is there a line between obscenities which are separate from their origins and those which are inextricably linked?

"Faggot" is fairly archaic and is being reclaimed by gay men. It's an insult but not an obscenity.

"Kike" is a religious slur, as is "goy". Again: insult, not obscenity.

"Slut" is an insult used against women who are seen to be sexually liberal. It's not a term I've used or seen used much here at MN. Insult; not obscenity.

I have seen / heard black people use the word "nigger" to / about each other. Not my dog; not my fight. This word would probably fall into the obscenity, rather than insult, territory.

"Terf" isn't an obscenity but is used as an insult / slur by TRAs and allies against those (mainly women) who do not follow transideology. Insult; not obscenity.

"Dyke" is a term I've heard used by and about lesbians. I've also heard "diesel dyke", but not for years. Insult; not obscenity.

The only term I could see being banned by a newspaper is "nigger". The others, meh. Unpleasant but nothing more.

“The only term I could see being banned by a newspaper is "nigger".”
Why is nigger worse than any of the others? Would you use it? And if you wouldn’t use it because you’re not black, are you OK with men using cunt?

I was a bit puzzled by the rationale for this discussion so moseyed along to the other thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3466843-can-we-ban-the-c-word?pg=1
where the debate by different posters is very similar to this, with many disapproving but not wanting a ban, some using it gleefully, some against any ban on principle and so on - but what I hadn't realised is that You often see it on the relationships board, for example, when people are discussing someone who has ruined their life. Well I never.

Can I suggest that would-be banners drop into those offending conversations and make their objections known?
On second thoughts, perhaps not.

Oh, and I noticed a 'pearl-clutching' over there too, but don't think the poster there was trying to shut down conversation, merely expressing their exasperation. So probably no need to report that.

As for 'nigger', that's for black people alone to reclaim. It's long been pretty universally accepted as offensive and isn't tolerated, and I doubt it would ever be on here - people would object on an ad hoc basis even if it isn't banned. The history is quite different. It's edited out of Agatha Christie but not Mark Twain or Joseph Conrad and even then it's disputed.

Anyway, it's not 'men using the word' on Mumsnet that OP is complaining about, it's largely women.

Oh, and I noticed a 'pearl-clutching' over there too, but don't think the poster there was trying to shut down conversation, merely expressing their exasperation. So probably no need to report that

I haven't reported but I think it is a stupid, lazy, hackneyed expression. I judge anyone using it. The poster using it ( can't now recall if on the other thread or this one) was boasting about her extensive vocabulary. It surprised me she would have to resort to such a trite and over- used expression to make her point.

Personally I think "pearl- clutching" is as much a "shut up woman" phrase as "terf"

Can I suggest that would-be banners drop into those offending conversations and make their objections known?

Presumably there it is used to describe men and as an insult? Not the super- duper most empowering word ever for a vagina? Does that contradiction never give pause for thought for its fans?